The Tradition Of Debate (Pt 3: “Purity Is The Force”) (Classic)
The Tradition Of Debate
“PURITY IS THE FORCE”
By Yashoda Nandana dasa
Importance of Purity.
Srila Prabhupada has numerous times stressed the importance of purity for His movement. His fourfold practical mantra of “Purity is the force, Books [His original Books) are the basis, Utility is the principle and Preaching is the essence” was the basic foundation of His vision for His pure Vaishnava movement. In order to spread the pure and original teachings of Srila Prabhupada, the purity of its members and followers is an absolute necessity. It is therefore extremely important for any individuals who might wish to propose or suggest any kind of debate involving any ISKCON GBC or their “appointed gurus or voted in gurus” or any of their apologists to defend their current theology on Guru-Tattva to have a prior background check to insure the purity of their characters as well as the integrity of their former and current Acarya board members. It is important to refresh our minds therefore regarding some statements of His Divine Grace on the importance of purity and the secret of success for His movement.
Keep it pure.
“So if we keep our movement pure, then you are as strong as Krsna. And as soon as you deviate from it, immediately, ordinary. This is the secret. Now it is up to us to keep it pure”(l) His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Room Conversations with Srila Prabhupada May 3, 1976, Honolulu, Hawaii, USA. [Los Angeles, CA, USA, Prabhupada Folio, 1991]
“Regarding your question about dancing show, whatever it may be, it may not deviate from the real Krsna conscious program. We are Hari Kirtana men, that’s all. We can attract people by some gorgeous show, but inside there must be strict, purity and seriousness, otherwise we shall be attracted by the gorgeous show only… Our message is very grave, and because it is the Absolute truth, it will work without any artificial presentation.”(2) HDGACBSP Letters from Srila Prabhupada, Vol 3. Srila Prabhupada letter to Madhudvisa Maharaja. July 8, 1972 [Mexico City, Mexico, The Vaisnava Institute 1986]
Our only asset is purity.
“By chanting and giving prasadam you will get so many devotees. Yes, as you say the purity is attractive to people. Continue it. Our only asset is purity. pavitram paramam bhavam. You cannot reach Krsna without being pure, because He is the supreme pure.”(3) ibid. as in no 2, SPL letter to Locananda dasa, July 7, 1975.
GBC means to be a practical example.
“So I request all of you to follow strictly the regulative principles, especially the chanting on the beads. GBC means to be a practical example to all residents of temple and devotees, if all of us follow this principle of purity, our spiritual position will remain sound, and maya will not touch us. mayam etam taranti te. A fully surrendered soul always remains untouched by the hand of maya. Otherwise it is not possible.” (4) ibid as in No. 2, SPL to Kirtanananda Maharaja, October 5, 1974.
There have been various discussions recently in the electronic media and among numerous devotees about whether the disciplic succession and any of its bona fide Acaryas has ever been contaminated. Various lines of argumentations have been forwarded to attempt to defend the official GBC position that bona fide gurus and acaryas can fall down and do fall down, and that this is allegedly very common in the bona fide Gaudiya Sampradaya. Various scriptural citations have been presented in a frantic attempt to prove this theory. Many, if not most devotees, are somewhat skeptical, if not astonished at the idea that individuals acting or who have acted as acaryas and Vaishnava gurus could manifest symptoms of homosexuality, pedophilia, child molestation, sexual deviations, even with their own initiates, embezzlement etc, and various other blatant deviations.
The major problem with this acarya fall down theory is that it is diametrically opposed to one of the fundamental tenets of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. One of such basic teaching is that the bona fide Vaisnava acarya never deviates. This is clearly articulated by His Divine Grace that the bona fide spiritual master, especially a diksa guru or an initiating spiritual master is never deviated.
Acarya never deviates.
“The spiritual master is never deviated from the path of the authorities.”(5) (5)[HDG]ACBS[P] Easy Journey to Other Planets, page 24, item 4, [New Delhi, India. The League of Devotees, 1960].
Spiritual master must be authorized.
“The spiritual master must never be carried away by an accumulation of wealth or a large number of followers. A bona fide spiritual master will never become like that. But sometimes, if a spiritual master is not properly authorized and only on his own initiative becomes a spiritual master, he may be carried away by an accumulation of wealth and large number of disciples. His is not a very high grade of devotional service.”(6) HDGACBSP, The Nectar of Devotion, Ch 14. p.117, “Devotional Qua1ifications”[Boston, MS, USA ISKCON Press, 1970
Bona fide spiritual master does not deviate.
“A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord, as they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of Bhagavad-Gita have come down to the earthly kingdom.”(7) HDGACBSP Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, 4.40. [New York, NY, USA, The MacMillan Company, 1972]
Guru cannot be bad.
In a famous newspaper interview with a reporter from the London Times, Srila Prabhupada explains about the erroneous concept of ‘bad gurus. ‘
Reporter: “But the bad gurus.”
Srila Prabhupada: “But what is a ‘bad’ guru?”
Reporter: “A bad guru just wants some money or some fame.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Well, if he is bad how can he become a guru? How can iron become gold? Actually a guru cannot be bad. For if someone is bad, he cannot be a guru. You cannot say ‘bad guru.’ That is a contradiction. What you have to do is simply try to understand what is genuine guru… The definition of a genuine guru is that he is simply talking about God. That’s all. If he is talking about some other nonsense, then he is not a guru. A Guru cannot be bad. There is no question of bad guru, any more than a red guru or a white guru. Guru means genuine guru. All we have to know is that the genuine guru is simply talking about God and trying to get people to become God’s devotees. If he does this then he is genuine.”(8) Science of Self-Realization, p.61. “Separating the Saints from the Swindlers.”[Los Angeles, CA, USA. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, 1977]
Further, the historical records of the lives of the bona fide Acaryas in the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Sampradaya clearly show us that the great mukta-purusas [fully liberated souls] and Maha-Bhagavata-Vaishnava Acaryas [first class pure devotee uttama-adhikari spiritual masters] never come down to the level of ordinary materialistic men and indulge in all sorts of depraved and immoral behaviors.
This is confirmed by the illustrious Gaudiya-Vedanta-Acarya Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana, in his Prameya- Ratnavali, Introduction, Text 4
bhavati–vicintya-vidusa niravakara-guru-parampara nityam
ekantitvam sidhyati yayodayati yena hari tosam
” It must be considered that the eternal disciplic succession is eternally faultless [vidusa] and free from any impurity [niravakara]. By constantly remembering such faultless disciplic succession, one achieves single minded loving devotion to the Supreme Lord Hari, and thus pleases Lord Hari.” (9) Sripada Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Prameya Ratnavali, Introduction Text 4, [Los Angeles, CA, USA, Peter Viggiani,
Kusakratha dasa, The Krsna Institute, 1987
Gurusu nara matih.
To think that the empowered bona fide Acarya [s] can behave and/or fall down like an ordinary human is strictly forbidden in the sacred sastras. And to similarly think that the bona fide Acarya is an ordinary human is a great aparadha.
Srila Prabhupada: “It is aparadha. Gurusu naramatih. This is forbidden. Gurusu nara matih. Arcye siladhir… Just like everyone knows… The atheist class will say. ‘Oh, here is a stone statue, and these rascals are worshipping Krsna’.”
Dr. Patel: “That is wrong.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Similarly Guru. Although he is working, moving just like ordinary human being, one should not consider that he is ordinary human being. Gurusu nara-matih… Guru should not be considered in that way. If he is actually guru.”(10) as in item # I February, 23, 1974, Bombay, India.
Why is the bona fide guru not to be considered an ordinary human being?
One is forbidden to accept the guru, or spiritual master, as an ordinary human being, (gurusu-nara-matih). When Ramananda Raya spoke to Pradyumna Misra. Pradyumna Misra could understand that Ramananda Raya was not an ordinary human being. A Spiritually advanced person who acts with authority. as the Spiritual master speaks as the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates from within. It is not that he is personally speaking. When a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the parampara system.” (11) HDGACBSP Sri Caitanya-Caritamrta, Antya-Lila, 5.71 [Los Angeles, CA, USA. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, 1975.]
The exalted position of the empowered acaryas.
One is strictly forbidden to think that the acarya is an ordinary human being.
Prahlada Maharaja continued: “After accepting the instructions of Devarsi Narada, my mother stayed in his care, without fear from any direction. as long as my father, the King of the Daityas, had not become free from his severe austerities.”
rsim paryacarat tatra bhaktya paramaya sati
antavanti sva-garbhasya ksemayeccha-prasutaye
“My mother, being pregnant. desired the safety of her embryo and desired to give birth after her husband’s arrival. Thus she stayed at Narada Muni’s asrama, where she rendered service unto Narada Muni with great devotion.”
“Nonetheless although one is strictly prohibited from staying with a woman in a secluded place, Narada Muni gave shelter to Prahlada Maharaja’s young mother, who rendered service to him with great devotion and faith. Does this mean that Narada Muni transgressed the Vedic injunctions? Certainly he did not. Such injunctions are meant for mundane creatures, but Narada Muni is transcendental to mundane categories. Narada Muni is a great saint and is transcendentally situated… Therefore although he was a young man he could give shelter to a young woman and accepted her service… Anyone can take shelter of a pure Vaishnava, without fear. Therefore in the previous verse it has been distinctly said. devarser antike sakuto-bhaya. Kayadhu the mother of Prahlada Maharaja stayed under the protection of Narada Muni without fear from any direction. Similarly Narada Muni in his transcendental position stayed with the young woman without fear of deviation. Narada Muni, Haridas Thakura, and similar acaryas especially empowered to broadcast the glories of the Lord cannot be brought down to the material platform. Therefore one is strictly forbidden to think that the acarya is an ordinary human being.
(gurusu nara-matih) (12) HDGACBSP Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.7.13 [Los Angeles, CA. USA, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, 1975]
Thus in the history of the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-Parampara. there is no record of any depravity or deviation on the part of any bona fide Vaisnava acarya, as confirmed by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana and Srila Prabhupada. It should be further noted that Srila Prabhupada says in the Madhya-Lila of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta that “there is no possibility that a first class devotee will fall down even though he may mix with non-devotees to preach.”
DANGER OF CHANGING THE TEACHINGS OF THE SAMPRADAYA-ACARYA, SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Srila Prabhupada was extremely careful to balance the needs of practical preaching adjustments and maintaining the pure standards he had established. In a letter to His students, Srila Prabhupada emphasized the importance of purity.
“We are not concerned with any other movement save and except Krishna Consciousness in its pure form. In India it is said that a little bit of a pure thing is much better than huge volumes of impure adulterated things. So please try to follow this policy.”(14) as in item # 2 SPL to Brahmananda dasa, August 1968
Purpose of the GBC formation.
“I have formed the GBC for that purpose, to keep the devotional standards at the highest level.”(15) ibid SPL to Rupanuga dasa, December 4, 1970
Potential danger of not keeping the pure standards.
“One thing, if we are not careful to always stick to the point of regulative principles and purest standards of high living, then everything will spoil very quickly and the whole show will become a farce.”.. (16) ibid SPL to Rebatinandana Swami, February 2, 1972
And what happens if you do not keep it pure.
“Similarly… our movement, it may appear just like other movement, but because the movement is giving Krsna, that means it is as good as Krsna… So long as it adheres to the principles… otherwise it is ordinary movement. This same man he is guru, so long he gives the real knowledge of Krsna. And the same man. He is ordinary man, as soon as he cannot give…So if we keep our movement pure, then you are a strong as Krsna. And as soon as you deviate from it, immediately ordinary. This is the secret. Now it is up to us to keep it pure. Then no enemy can kill us. Nobody can kill you. That purity is wanted, then it will… So what is the difficulty? Follow the rules and regulations, worship the deity, and chant the Hare Krishna mantra, as you have [been] given, then you will remain as strong as Krsna. And if we manufacture some idea also, that is no good. Krsna cannot be manufactured. Krsna is Krsna. You cannot manufacture another form competitor of Krsna. That is no good… “(17) as in item # I. May 3, 1976 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
Danger of factions.
Srila Prabhupada continues and warns about the great danger of factions.
“Just like the, your one competitor came, to even in the lifetime of Krsna, Paundraka.”
Pusta Krsna: “Yes.”
Srila Prabhupada: “With artificial four hands. You know that?”(laughs) This movement is actually the real movement to raise the human society. And if we create factions, then the movement will be less strong and will not act very (indistinct) [effectively?)”(18) ibid. as in item # I. May 3, 1976 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
Danger of illicit sexual behavior.
Srila Prabhupada has very clearly stated throughout His books about the danger of illicit sexual activities and especially homosexuality. The various statements by His Divine Grace in this regard serve as a reminder that in order to act as a bona fide Vaishnava devotee one cannot indulge in illicit sexual activities, what to speak of indulgence in homosexuality under the guise of Guru and Acarya. This is relevant in connection with any proposed debate, since it has already been established. that several of the current GBC acaryas voted and supported the reinstatement of a known “homosexual guru” in March of 1986 in Mayapura. India. And further this may help us to determine if any of the current Acaryas were voted in or certified by the same individuals who vehemently supported the same “homosexual guru” in the middle 1980’s.
It is significant to note in this connection that the GBC has published a report in 1989 and a modified one in again in 1995, which now claims to be the final siddhanta with regards to Srila Prabhupada’s desire for the continuation of the disciplic succession. Of course no valid explanation is given why their previous siddhantas are now considered obsolete. Were they not final at some point? Astonishingly, the same report alleges that bona fide gurus and acaryas in the parampara may sometimes become demons or become influenced by demoniac qualities!
The 1989 GBC report says:
[Bold is the author’s]
“The GBC resolutions provide that one should abandon or reject a spiritual master who has the following symptoms;
1. His attachment to sense gratification is serious, prolonged or hopeless.
2. Be takes on demoniac qualities and becomes inimical to ISKCON. (19) GBC report. “Guru-Asraya, Maintaining shelter in the Guru-Parampara.” A paper offering guidance from the GBC. Approved by GBC resolution, p.6. Mayapura, India. March 22, 1989
In the booklet “GURUS AND INITIATIONS IN ISKCON” published in 1995, in the section 1.5.4. “Sanctioning of Gurus by the GBC,” the GBC says:
“The GBC body may apply any of the following sanctions against a guru for misconduct.
126.96.36.199. Warning (or censure) “If a Guru is found deviating from or neglecting spiritual practices… the guru should be warned (or censured confidentially).”
If the warnings are not heeded, or if the deviation or neglect of spiritual practices are of a more serious nature, or if the transgression of guru codes of behavior are serious and habitual, the guru may be put under probation with specific conditions which regulate his guru functions (including temporary withdrawal of authorization to initiate new disciples.) In addition, he may be given general recommendations or specific activities to perform as part of a program for his rectification and eventual reinstatement.
If a guru blatantly ignores the terms of probation or repeatedly breaks one or more of the regulative principle, or acts in manner which seriously and harmfully disregards existing ISKCON or GBC policies, or leaves his asrama or sannyasa without authorization, or leaves the association of devotees and the ISKCON movement or completely deviate from the standard sadhana. he may be suspended]. If a guru is suspended he cannot give initiation or maintain an absolute siksa position in relation to his disciples, not be introduced as spiritual master, nor perform his guru functions such a receiving guru-puja or the acceptance of daksina.
Note: It may be noticed here that the function of preaching Krsna Consciousness as it is is conspicuous by its absence in the above definition of the functions of a guru. Notice the emphasis on puja and daksina.
If a guru becomes openly inimical to Srila Prabhupada or ISKCON; or otherwise acts demonically [or becomes an impersonalist (mayavadi)… he shall be removed from his position as diksa or siksa-guru. (20) GBC “Gurus and initiations in ISKCON” sections 1.5.4 188.8.131.52. 184.108.40.206 220.127.116.11. 18.104.22.168. [GBC, March 1995]. (21) as in item # 5.
However, Srila Prabhupada opines differently than the GBC.
“The spiritual master is never deviated from the path of authorities.” (21) as in item # 5.
Let us carefully analyze Srila Prabhupada’ statements about one of such demoniac behaviors since it directly pertains to the issue at hand.
Origin of homosexual tendency.
‘iti pahi mam paramatmams te presanenasrjam prajah
ta ima yabhitum papa upakramanti mam prabho
Lord Brahma, approaching the Lord addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.
It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahma. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life. (22) as in item # 12 S.B. 3.20.26 [1973
But why write about all this?
It is sometimes argued that some of these incidents took place quite a few years ago and why should this be brought up again and again, especially in written format. Some sentimental devotees say that this should not be done. However, Srila Prabhupada opines differently.
Srila Prabhupada: “These rascals should understand that they have created problem on account of their animalistic, less than animalistic civilization. There is no limit of sense gratification. The sense gratification, homosex they are supporting. Just see. Just see. At least, in animal society there is no homosex. They have created homosex, and that is being passed by the priest, the religious heads. You know that?”
Devotee: “Yes, I have heard.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them.” It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all realize, then challenge.”(23) as in item # 1 August 25, 1971 London, England
Degradation of human society.
Devotee: “Even in Los Angeles they have a group of homosexuals who used to get harassed by people all the time. So now they have become a military group, and they carry weapons. And if anybody harasses them. they shoot them. They’re called militant homosexuals.”
Devotee: “In one high school here they asked the question whether we accept homosexuality, and I said, ‘Of course not. This is only a perversion.’ And they said, This is nature’s way to stop overpopulation,’ because there won’t be any children. So much foolish.”
Srila Prabhupada: “How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children they are discussing.” (24) as in item # 1 May 9, 1975 Perth, Australia
Note: It should be mentioned that in our movement many of Srila Prabhupada’s Vaikuntha children unfortunately became victims of such ‘degraded’ persons.
Dogs and hogs are not even homosex?
Bahulasva: “In California, they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.”
Srila Prabhupada: “They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don’t think.”
Bahulasva: “Yeah, dogs they say. We were preaching in this one convention that the dogs are also fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be legal too because the dogs do that also.”
Brahmananda: “Their argument was because the dogs have homosex, therefore the man should have?”
Bahulasva: “Should have homosex.”
Dharmadhyaksa: “Yes, if an animal does it, then a human being should have the same right to do it also.”
Jayatirtha: “Then they can pass stool in the street also?”
Srila Prabhupada: “Then what is the difference between man and animal? They do not find any difference” (25) as in item # I July 16, 1975 San Francisco, CA, USA
Pig standard of pleasure?
Brahmananda: “Because there is some sex pleasure that makes it tolerable.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Yes, that is the, what is called topmost ignorance, topmost ignorance, that ‘This is happiness. So the materialistic person means only for the happiness they are suffering so much, this way. They agree. Yes Just like Dr., B… Maharaja was speaking that they are talking freely?”
Brahmananda: “… about homosexuality.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Oh Yes. What is the wrong? It is pleasure. They take it as pleasure.”
Brahmananda: “The priests. They’re in the theological seminary, and they are priests, and they are saying that it is pleasurable, so why not do it?”
Srila Prabhupada: “And what is the pleasure? Stool passing and urine passing points are joined together, and it is pleasure. Just see their standard of pleasure. Just like the pigs. With pleasure they eat stool, standard of pleasure had gone down so low. This is Kali-Yuga.”(26) as in item # 1 September I, 1975 Vrindavana, India.
Priests Allowing Homosex!
Srila Prabhupada: “If you have an ideal group of men then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But do not mind I don’t find any ideal group of men. Priests should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character of men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit,
and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?”
Director: “But homosexual is a sickness.”
Devotee: “He says it’s an illness.”
Director: “It is an illness. It’s just like a person can’t see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can’t punish a person for being a homosexual. That our society says.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed. “All right.” And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex. So where is the ideal character” (27) as in item # I May 21, 1975 Melbourne, Australia.
Homosex in the Churches.
Brahmananda: “Actually you’re supposed to see other women as mother.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Yes.”
Brahmananda: “But not one’s own wife.”
Srila Prabhupada: “No. Para-daresu, Matrvat para-daresu. That is the injunction Other’s wife. Not that ‘my wife is also my mother.’ Just see. This lunacy is going on. and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent…”
Brahmananda: “They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America, homosex.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Yes, churches accept. It is already law.”
Nitai: “This women’s liberation movement, the leaders are also homosexual. They’re lesbians.”
Srila Prabhupada [laughs]: “Just see. Hare Krsna. The whole world is on the verge of ruination. Kali-Yuga.” (28) as in item # 1 September 6, 1975, Vrndavana, India
Priests are homosexuals?
Srila Prabhupada: “That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said. some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in the Bible. Now you say that ‘Thou shall not kill;’ they say, ‘Thou shall not murder.’ They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning man to man
marriage. They are sanctioning abortion.”
Acyutananda: “Yes, two homosexuals were married by a priest.”
Tamala Krsna: “Now they have a church where the priests are homosexuals and the attending people are homosexuals.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Hm’!’
Tamala Krsna: “Now they have churches for homosexuals. That means the priest is a homosexual, and the persons who come are homosexuals. A special church for homosexuals.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Just see. Is that religion’!”(29) as in item # I January 8, 1976 Nellore, India.
“The things have been topsy-turvied. A person on religious category, he is advocating something. Oh, it is not to be uttered. Homosex. He is advocating homosex. Just see.” (30) as in item # 1 May 21, 1972 Los Angeles, CA, USA.
Less than animals?
Srila Prabhupada: “Because they have given up the real principles. They are simply animals. Therefore there are so many problems. Actually there is no problem. Even they are not animal. Less than animal. In animal society there is no problem. There is problem, but not so acute. They are free. Just like the ducks, the pigeons, they fly from one country to another. They have no problem of immigration department, passport or visa. They have no problem. These rascals should understand that they have created problem on account of their animalistic, less than animalistic civilization. There is no limit of sense gratification. The sense gratification homosex they are supporting. Just see. Just see. At least in animal society there is no homosex. They have created homosex, and that is
being passed by the priest, the religious heads. You know that.”
Devotee: “Yes, I have heard.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all realize then challenge”(31) as in item# 1 August 25, 1971 London, England.
So-called Swamis supporting homosex!
“If you give good instruction to the rascals, he will simply be angry. He will not take advantage of it. This is our position. All the so-called professors, philosophers, they are all in the pravrtti marga. …Our difficulty the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravrtti-marga. All these priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravrrti
marga. So they are passing.” ‘Yes, you can have homosex with man.’ They are getting man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between man-to-man in the open church. What class of man they are. And they are priests. Just see. Such degraded persons.”… (32) as in item # 1May 13, 1975 Perth, Australia
Not even fourth class men! Animal class
Srila Prabhupada: “They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that’s all dogs and hogs… in the beginning samah. Sarnah, damah… first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so sexually disturbed, they are discussing the profit of homosex. Where is first class men?”
Amogha: “They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Yes, fourth class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth class man’s philosophy we will have to waste our time to hear them. That’s not good. They are not even fourth class men; they are animal class. Fourth class man has got some position, but they are naradhama, the lowest of mankind. So what is their philosophy and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy?” (33) ibid May 13, 1975.
The origin of the manusa-maithuna-apa-sampradaya.
Did GBC members “vehemently support” a homosexual deviant?
It might be helpful to remember in this connection that some members and gurus [!] of the managerial commission did reinstate and vote back a known homosexual Guru in March of 1986, back to the position of guru. This is summarized by the same devotee cited earlier. “Last year  the entire Acharya block, the six most powerful … [names withheld] vehemently supported B…dasa. They did not even put in a single restriction on him like he should stay in the temple every single day of his life and attend morning and evening programs, the association of good devotees and go on Harinama or active preaching program and give up his bad association and unusual lifestyle etc. They let him go unchanged… As one of them told us. ‘This is Kali-Yuga, we cannot chop down our men for some fall downs.” (34) Yasomatinandana dasa. “The ISKCON purification.” 1987.
“The heart is so contaminated, so deeply attached that even after gross falldown, he [B… Dasa] does not want to give up worship and adoration, on the same level as Srila Prabhupada. Blind imitation. No shame. No remorse. No guilt. Shameless politics and our biggest leaders supported. Vox populi. So where are they?”(35) ibid.
Protect Prabhupada’s son?
“Our great scholar H… Goswami, flaunted all philosophical principles, when he gave a sentimental rap to the so-called temple presidents’ meeting, fixed and managed by the blind followers of B… & Co. ‘B… is Prabhupada’s son and we must protect him’ as if all of us who have been serving Prabhupada without being GBC and GURU are not Prabhupada’s sons.”(36) ibid
Special gift for Lord Caitanya on His Appearance?
The author of the ISKCON purification paper continues: “We all went back to our temples with our hearts broken and hopes shattered having given Lord Caitanya a wonderful gift of a faggot guru… on His Appearance day. We were absolutely convinced our leaders were destroying ISKCON.”(37) ibid
Biggest frustration? Witnessing the raping of ISKCON?
“The biggest frustration of all was of course S… Maharaja, who is respected by all and all as a great Brahmana and advanced Vaisnava, who is said to have abstained from voting. Like Bhismadeva he witnessed the raping of ISKCON without protest. Maybe he should make up for his mistake by going to Australia and cleaning up the place.”(38) ibid
Let us again refresh our memories about Srila Prabhupada’s statements regarding ecclesiastical leaders supporting or condoning homosexuality.
Srila Prabhupada: “No, the Christian churches, all the priests they are eating meat. They are supporting everything, homosex everything, man-to-man marriage.”… (39) as in item # 1 May 28, 1975 Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
Srila Prabhupada: “It is not their fault. The Western civilization is like that. Now you have to make a thorough change. The persons from the ecclesiastical order, they are so polluted, they are sanctioning homosex. abortion. What can be done for the common man?” (40) as in item # 1 April 8, 1976
Ramesvara: ” the decline of the church in America, and they say that the biggest reason in the last few years is that Pope, he issued one big statement against birth control and abortion. He said: ‘Catholics cannot practice birth control and abortion.’ He said: Catholics cannot practice birth control and should never have abortion.’ So they
did not like this. So that is the biggest reason for the decrease in attending the church. They broke away from the authority. ”
Srila Prabhupada: “That means if the church allows sense gratification without restriction, then they’ll attend the church. That is the conclusion,”
Tamala Krsna: “They’re dictating.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Yes.”
Tamala Krsna: “The mass is dictating, same thing as in.”
Srila Prabhupada: “That means conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said ‘You cannot do this sinful,’ and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.”
Ramesvara: “Even the priests, they said when the Pope issued that document, they lost faith in him as the representative of God.”
Srila Prabhupada: Just see, rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they’re supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful. How the church will go on?” (41) as in item # 1 June 6. 1976, Los Angeles, CA, USA.
Fourth, fifth class men.
Jagadisa: “I remember, Srila Prabhupada, when 1was young 1was brought up in the Catholic Church, and I learned to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to…”
Srila Prabhupada: “Association, everything is bad. So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require first class man section. A first class… All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests… All third class, fourth class, fifth class men. Indulging in homosex these rascals are priests. And they’ll protect
religion,”(42) as in item # 1 June 17, 1976 Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Based on these important conversations by Srila Prabhupada, one cannot even imagine the position of a so-called Brahmana or so-calledVaishnava Guru, what to speak of a group of gurus who “vehemently supported” the reinstatement of a known homosexual Guru under the guise of a so-called Guru reform. Srila Prabhupada did not approve of this homosex degradation. The argument is sometimes put forward by some sentimental supporters of the Samsthapaka-Acaryas of the manusa-maithuna-apa-sampradaya. or the Founding-Acaryas of the homosex deviant so-called disciplic succession within the GBC, that this was a mistake and we were inexperienced and we did not really know. Let us examine again some very pointed and pertinent instructions of Srila Prabhupada in this connection to some of His leading devotees. First, let us carefully hear the purport of the Sampradaya-Acarya on the topic of monkey business in the sacred places.
Deterioration of the church by monkey renunciation.
Tamala Krsna: “I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He always maintained a government service job, and still.”
Srila Prabhupada: “He gave so much service to Krsna. For his family maintenance… He could have renounced. But he said that the family has to be maintained… So he… markata vairagya. Bhaktivinoda Thakura was against giving sannyasa. He didn’t like these babajis, they were markata vairagya, superficially… Markata vairagya means monkey.
They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That’s vairagya. But three dozen wives… Markata vairagya nahi paraloka dasaya. So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into.”
Tarnala Krsna: “The Christians had that happen to them.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Hmm?”
Tarnala Krsna: “The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense gratification. ”
Srila Prabhupada: “Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing. No nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That’s all.” .
Tamal Krsna: “Just like the original… When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more, they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can’t see any renunciation at all within their order.”
Srila Prabhupada: “No they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man to-man marriage. You know that? That is going on. Doing everything nonsense.” (43) as in item # 1 Apri128, 1977 Bombay, India
‘They are passing to homosex religion.’ ‘Priests doing all rascal nonsense!’
Srila Prabhupada: “The injunction is ‘Thou shall not kill.’ They are simply killing. How it will be effective.”
Tarnala Krsna: “The priests are doing all rascal nonsense. Homosex.”
Srila Prabhupada: “They announced that… there is hospital for drunkard priest”
Tamala Krsna: Alcoholic priests.”
Srila Prabhupada: And they have introduced gambling.”
Tamala Krsna: And homosex.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Homosex, what is that religion? And they are passing to homosex, religion. They’re getting married man to man. Most degraded.”
Hari Sauri: “There is no difference between the behavior of a priest and the behavior of a gross atheist.”
Srila Prabhupada: “Yes.” (44) as in item # 1 February 16, 1977 Mayapura, India
With regards to the proposal for a so-called debate.
The managerial commission and its officers and apologists must first resolve among themselves who was involved in the secret vote of 8 to 6 in March of 1986 reinstating a known homosexual as a guru. This has been unceremoniously referred to by various devotees as the “homosexual reinstatement ceremony.” This naturally brings up several questions.
1) Based on Srila Prabhupada’s statements in the above conversations, are individuals who support and condone homosexual activities, human or sub-human?
2) If the managerial commission still proposes that such individuals are devotees or Vaishnava devotees or Brahmanas and Gurus, then where in Srila Prabhupada’ s books, or in any other sastras for that matter, is there any evidence of a group of Brahmanas or Vaishnava gurus engaging in a ‘homosexual guru reinstatement ceremony.’
such as what occurred in the GBC meetings in Mayapura, India in March of 1986?
3) Further, where in the history of Vaishnavism, specifically according to Srila Prabhupada’s original books and purports, have any bona fide Vaisnava Acaryas or gurus, ever voted others to be gurus or elected other gurus, while participating in the reinstatement ceremony of a known homosexual in the guise of a Guru? What is the authority and effectiveness of such a so-called vote or certification?
4) If the managerial commission or their apologists propose a debate, are the proposed participants from the managerial commission’s side, prepared to first publicly disassociate and distance themselves from the eight GBC participants [or the remainder thereof and others who abstained from voting] in the “homosexual guru[!] reinstatement,” who secretly voted to allow the same homosexual devotee to remain in his position as a guru and still accept guru-puja. and guru-daksina, even after engaging in the above questionable activities?
5) If they are not prepared to do so, then let the proposed debaters and participants first answer the above mentioned questions 2 and 3 before any proceedings even begin?
In closing this section. let us all remember the clear words of Srila Prabhupada with regards to such activities in the sacred-dhama.
Rectal and genital business in the Dhama?
“When the world becomes degraded, civilization becomes demoniac, and for the common man the rectum and the genital are taken very seriously as the centers of all activity. Even in such a sacred place as Vrindavana. Unintelligent men pass off this rectal and genital business as spiritual activity. Such people are called sahajiya. According to their philosophy, through sexual indulgence one can elevate themselves to the spiritual platform. From these verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam however, we understand that the desires for sexual satisfaction are meant for the arvak, the lowest among men. To rectify these rascals and fools is very difficult. After all, the sex desires of the common man are condemned in these verses. The word durmada means ‘wrongly directed.’ and nirrti means “sinful activity.” Although this clearly indicates that sex indulgence is abominable and misdirected even from the ordinary point of view, the sahajiyas nonetheless pass themselves off as devotees conducting spiritual activities.” Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.29.14.
SECTION THREE CONCLUSION
1. The false theory that a bona fide Vaishnava Acarya or guru deviates or takes on demoniac qualities such as homosexuality, child abuse and/or molestation, illicit sexual behaviors, etc, is a serious philosophical deviation and is not Srila Prabhupada’s teachings.
2. The false theory that a group of so-called bona fide Acaryas or gurus can be involved in a ‘homosexual guru reinstatement’ is against Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. Further the participants, promoters and/or advocates of such an unauthorized activity are not bona fide Vaishnava Acaryas according to Srila Prabhupada’s warnings as mentioned above.
3. The equally false theory that after engaging in such an unconscionable unauthorized activity such Acaryas or gurus could vote other acaryas or gurus is a deviation from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. Srila Prabhupada clearly warns that such deviants should be avoided: “If a spiritual master does not speak according to the revealed scriptures he is not to be accepted.” (45) as in item # 11 Madhya-Lila 20.352.
Thus, the proponents of a so-called debate should first deal with the serious ramifications of their homosex acarya reinstatement philosophy as mentioned above, before they can start to deal with any philosophical contentions.