Sulocana’s Explanation Of May 28 Appointment

April 22 1977

Room Conversation — April 22, 1977, Bombay

Prabhupada: So many complaints.

Tamala Krsna: Therefore change is good.

Prabhupada: No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, that kind of complaint was there.

Prabhupada: Did you know that?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I heard that, yeah.

Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?

Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible…

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: …but not now.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, “Now you become acarya. You become authorized.” I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.

Tamala Krsna: The process of purification must be there.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that. Amara ajnaya guru hana [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. “You become guru.” (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower…

Tamala Krsna: Not rubber stamp.

Prabhupada: Then you’ll not be effective. You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and “guru.” What kind of guru? No publication, no preaching, simply bring some foodstuff… My Guru Maharaja used to say, “Joint mess,” a place for eating and sleeping. Amar amar ara takana (?)(Bengali): “Joint mess.” He said this.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — April 22, 1977, Bombay        


May 28, 1977


Srila Prabhupada’s specific instructions for carrying out initiations in Iskcon after his physical disappearance as asked directly of him by his Governing Board Commissioners on May 28, 1977 was that he would soon recommend some of his disciples to act as officiating acaryas or ritviks representatives.

This taped conversation is unclear due to the strange and contradictory order of points that are made the – the question is asked “in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.”

Then SP says “Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.”

then Tamal askes if SP means  “Rtvik”

and SP clearly replys “Rtvik, yes”

Ok so this is clear, a Ritvik system is now being implemented by SP, but then it becomes confusing because then as the conversation progresses there is confusion of if the initiated devotees are SP’s diciples or “his” disciples and depending on which angle of vision one looks at the conversation through the word “his” can be interpreted in different ways!

OK then to make things more confusing, half way through (this suspiciously short conversation for such an important topic) the conversation, it goes form SP clearly saying that after his departure there will be Ritvik’s not regular Diksa gurus, then there are several exchanges between Satsarupa and Tamal and SP that no one can consider intelligible normal conversation.

– In a normal conversation there is a flowing natural train of thought and points that one can easily follow with out straining ones intellect and thus a natural conclusive point is made!  This is the very reason why one discuses things in the first place! But in the following conversation after SP says “Rtvik, yes.”  From this point on there is no logical normal train of thought that one can follow!

– Its as if someone has taken the original May 28 tape and cut out bits and pieces of the conversation and stuck them together to try to make his own point, but due to being limited to the actual parts of the conversation that where recorded they could not  come up with a fluent logical pattern of words to come to that point that the editor was trying to make, so thus we have the May 28 tape transcription as it is now, in such choppy incoherent mess as it is.

– Why would SP start out by answering Satsvarupa’s crystal clear question of “our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us.”  By saying “Ritvik” and finish by saying “he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple.” This is totally contradictory It makes absolutely no sense at all!!!

Due to so many people seeing the point above about the May 28th tape appearing to have been tampered with the tape was submitted to a respected and government approved laboratory and forensically analyzed to show tampering (illegal editing and removal and or rearranging of words)! Thus it was proved the ststments in this tape have been manipulated and rearranged to make SP say something that he never said!!!

Any way here is a transcription from the Folio Vedabase of what the tape says now (post tampering):

Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas.

[Although it is proven that this tape has been tampered with this statement could still be important even though it could have been edited in from somewhere else. Satsvarupe asks a very clear pointed question to SP “our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us.” And SP say “Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up”.  First of all one must ask what SP was considering recommending “some of you” for. And second could the July 9, 1977 worldwide order sent to all GBCs and temples presidents be that order of recommendation?  In the July 9th letter it is stated “henceforward” which means (according to dictionaries and also according to all the many times that SP would use this word in his books): from now on without change no mater what! Further this is the only written order that actually names individual disciples to officiate the initiation ceremony and defines what type of guru they will be acting in the position of. The word guru can be taken in meny different ways – as diksa-guru, Siksa-guru, Vartma-pradarsaka-guru, etc etc

Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya?

Prabhupada: Rtvik, yes.

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the…

Prabhupada: He’s guru. He’s guru.

Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf, on my order… Amara ajnaya guru hana [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Be actually guru, but by my order.

Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples.

Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples. Why consider? Who?

Tamala Krsna: No, he’s asking that these rtvik-acaryas, they’re officiating, giving diksa. Their… The people who they give diksa to, whose disciple are they?

Prabhupada: They’re his disciple.

Tamala Krsna: They’re his disciple.

Prabhupada: Who is initiating. He is granddisciple.

Satsvarupa: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That’s clear.

Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer…

Prabhupada: When I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada — May 28, 1977, Vrndavana



This version we have compiled is perfectly accurate in all detail-pauses, unclear words, etc. If the GBC has a version that is more clear, and can be heard better, then let them come forward with it now. Otherwise, when we say a segment of words is indistinguishable, that means that not only ourselves but numerous other devotees also could not make out what was being said. We have an excellent copy of the tape and are using the best equipment available.

Sat: Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

SP: Yes. I shall recommend some of you, after this is settled up (local business that they had been discussing), I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya.

Note: Here Prabhupada establishes that the following conversation is going to be about officiating gurus before his departure, not about gurus “at that time when he is no longer with us.”

Tam: Is that called ritvik-acarya?

SP: Ritvik. Yes.

Sat: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and-

Note: This is a meaningless question, and so Prabhupada didn’t even wait for him to finish it. He “who gives” is guru-Srila Prabhupada. Satsvarupa was no doubt thinking of he who “officiates” the initiation but his wording was off. The ritvik does not “give” the initiation; he officiates the initiation. Satsvarupa’s question is not clear, and so the answer cannot be confirmed to support any conclusion.

SP: -He’s guru- He’s guru.

Note: The first “He’s guru” broke into Satsvarupa’s words, and so Prabhupada repeated it. That’s the only reason. Srila Prabhupada is simply stating his own relationship to his disciple; the one “who gives” the initiation is guru. It is possible that he was referring to the ritvik as being guru, but in that case it would mean siksa-guru. In many places Prabhupada said that his senior disciples may be taken as siksa-guru of the neophytes if they repeated perfectly what they have heard. Guru simply means teacher in this sense.

Sat: But-he does it on your behalf?

Note: Here Satsvarupa introduces the delusion. In his mind he interpreted the answer as meaning the ritvik is the initiating guru.

SP: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru. So on my behalf. On my order, “amara ajnaya guru haya.” (3 sec. pause) He’s actually guru, but by my order.

Note: This is the most important answer. In fact it is so significant that at the end of this Appendix we quote the entire section in Caitanya-caritamrta where this quote comes from. Srila Prabhupada is being questioned as to what will be the system of guru after his departure. To this line of questioning Prabhupada quotes a verse from the Caitanya-caritamrta. that elaborately explains how me is “actually a guru.” Prabhupada is not going to recite the whole section for Satsvarupa right then and there. Satsvarupa knows how to read and so Prabhupada simply gave him the key words. Thus all Satsvarupa had to do was look it up. Prabhupada’s intentions for guru after his departure are very clear. Anyone who can read can see who Prabhupada was appointing guru.

Sat: So they may also be considered your disciples?

Note: Here Satsvarupa further reveals the delusion he is in. He has now fully convinced himself that the new devotees are actually his own disciples.

SP:…(words)…they’re disciples, but consider. (2 sec. pause) Who.

Note: Any interpretation of this partial statement is simply mental speculation. It is significant however that Prabhupada made this response in a tone of chastisement, as though he wanted Satsvarupa to give up his delusion. Tamala could see the confusion and so he interjected:

Tam: No. He is asking that these ritvik-acaryas… (Prabhupada: Hmmm)…they are officiating, giving diksa,…(hmmm)…the people who they give diksa to…(hmmm)…whose disciple are they?

Note: We have to give Tamala credit here for picking up that Satsvarupa is in delusion. Satsvarupa’s questions were not at all in line with Prabhupada’s answers and so Tamala wants to make it perfectly clear. Tamale’s wording is very concise. It is also significant that three times during this question Prabhupada said, “Hmmm”. Prabhupada was speaking very clearly at this time, and so there is no reason for any of this tape to be ambiguous-unless it was tampered with.

SP: They are (d)-his-disciples.

Note: just before the word “his” there is an unmistakable dip in sound. There can be no doubt that the word “his” was dubbed in; most likely in place of the word “my.” Why would Prabhupada say “his” disciples to a clear question like Tamala’s? Even if there were no dip, we would know that it was dubbed simply on the philosophical basis, but with the dip, there is no doubt. Who did the dubbing??

Tam: They are his disciples.

Note: This response confirms the dub. From the original bogus transcript, everyone thought Tamala was repeating what Prabhupada said. But that was an easy trick they thought they could get away with. This was not spoken as a question to Prabhupada as the bogus transcript led one to believe. This was immediately and softly spoken on the side to Satsvarupa simply confirming that the new devotees were Prabhupada’s disciples. Had Prabhupada actually said “his disciples,” then Tamala would have said to Satsvarupa, “They are our disciples.” One word dubs are relatively easy but even then they couldn’t make it perfect. Tamala is talking to Satsvarupa, so, when he says, “his disciples,” Prabhupada is “his”.

SP: Who is initiating. (3 sec. pause) His grand-disciple.

Sat: Yes. (5 sec. pause) Then we have a question conc-.

Note: Please keep in mind, Tamala had just told Satsvarupa that the new devotees were Prabhupada’s disciples. That was very clear at this time. So even though these last words cannot be interpreted (cuts may have been made), Satsvarupa had heard all he wanted to and so is going on to the next question. Some tampering may have been done on all these sentences. Why would Satsvarupa have gone onto the next point? This last statement could not have made sense to him. Further questions would have been necessary. At least we could expect that Tamala would have been in there clarifying the statement further if there was even the slightest hint that he was going to be a guru. The whole conversation has very unnatural sound to it and so we know it was heavily tampered with. But as yet we have not found out who did it. But we win.

SP: When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru. That’s all.

Note: The GBC tried to interpret the following June tape as that “order” mentioned here as though Prabhupada had all of a sudden changed the whole philosophy and decided that pure devotees can be appointed after all. It is significant that Prabhupada uses the term “regular guru.” As of yet we have not found an exact definition for that term from the books. It can be taken as a guru under regulations or as an ordinary guru which would mean siksa-guru. It can’t possibly mean a diksa-guru since diksa-gurus are not appointed or ordered.

It is significant that all these answers are to Tamale’s question-the first clear question. But the answers in this chopped up tape do not confirm any conclusion and so more in needed. So even though Prabhupada said, “that’s all”, they needed to add the following sentence to clinch the appointment theory.

SP: (7 sec. delay) He becomes…(inaudible word(s))…disciple of my disciple. (Click) just see.

Note: This fine is an obvious dub. Not only does the background noise drop out, but the speed and tone of Prabhupada’s voice dramatically changes also. The “just see” is again in a radically different tone and volume from the previous words. This tape was the only “evidence” the “gurus” ever had to support their claim to divinity. This can be proven, and when it is, the conspirators will be facing serious charges in court.

Sat: Next we have a question about the GBC. (end tape)

Note: There are some very significant points to bring out about this tape. One is that Prabhupada’s health and speech were not bad at this time and it would have been no problem to ask more specific questions to seek proper clarification. There are so many good reasons why it is obvious that this tape was tampered with. One is, if it was not tampered with, why was it not available to everyone? It was extremely well guarded. This would have been just the opposite if it actually said what they claimed. But because they were unable to make a good dubbing job, they kept it super-confidential. It is available however from DAS if anyone doubts the validity of this transcript. When Sridhar Maharaja told Jayapataka that a ritvik guru does not make one an initiating guru later, Jayapataka told Sridhar Maharaja, referring to this tape: “Prabhupada has given explicit desires.” Sridhar Maharaja believed him, and from the conversation that immediately ensued, the entire bogus guru manifesto was compiled.”


NOTE: from May 21st to 23rd and also for May 25th and 26th 1977 there are no tapes of SP.

Question: what transpired before this famous conversation (that has later proven to be illegally and secretly edited)?  When and how did Tamal previously learn from Prabhupada that “officiating acaryas” means “ritvik”?  How did Tamal get ritvik out of “officiating acaryas” unless this was already discussed befor?  When Tamal interpreted “officiating acaryas”  as “Ritvik’s” SP was in total clear agreement with him and did not explain or clearify the meaning of the word Ritvik to the others listening (its as if it was already defined and discussed previously, otherwise why did SP not go into this more SP is not one to leave any loose ends! If we study all SP’s books letters and recorded material we will find that without exception when SP would introduce a new word or idea he would define it and discus it so that the audience was clear what he means and how he is using the word.

One very important fact that to be looked at in this regard is that about 3 years later in 1980 at a meeting with several senior SP disciples and leading men in ISKCON at Topanga canyan, Tamal revealed as of yet an unknown aspect of this May 28 1977 meeting and said something that had not been known to most as of yet: Tamal Krishna Goswami: ““so the GBC met for various reasons [referring to the May 28 1977 meeting] and they went to Prabhupada – five or six of us. We asked him, “Srila Prabhupada, after your departure, if we accept disciples, whose disciples will they be, your disciples or mine?” Later on there was a piled-up list for people to get initiated, and it was jammed-up. I [TKG] said, “Srila Prabhupada, you once mentioned [TKG uses the word “mentioned”. The word mentioned is used to denote aurally hearing another person speak about something – not to read about something from a book! So one can not say TKG got the word ritvik from the synonyms of SB!] about ritviks. I don’t know what to do.””   Tamal says here that he had learned all about Ritvik and officiating acaryas from SP previously to this May 28 1977 discussion!

This statement from Tamal at Topanga canyan is not in either of the above tape transcriptions! So where did it go to! It also must have been edited out!  And also where is the tape of that conversation that Tamal is referring to??? Could it be one of the many mysteriously missing tapes?

Another consideration is that Srila Prabhupada never made any very important changes especially about managementle affairs only by a tape recording.  If he did make any statement on tape regarding important manegmenatle changes it was always accompanied by or later finalized by a signed letter or legal document! So this conversation could be the setting of the scene for the

May 9th letter.

May 31 1977

The following is taken from a paper written by Gauridas Pandita Prabhu called “on my behalf”where he quotes Yasodanandan Prabhu:

Yasodanandan Prabhu had a conversation with Bhavananda Maharaja on May 31st where he asked:

“What’s this I heard from Gauridasa about [the] nomination of ritvik acharyas?”

Bhavananda said, “It just means on behalf of Prabhupada. That’s all. I can’t wait until we start to do this.”

[if there was nothing at all about the ritvik system that has changed then why did Bhavananda say “I can’t wait until we start to do this.” Could he mean he could not wait to be a real post departure Ritvik Guru? Other wise if it means that simply again the Ritvik system that was already going on during SP’s presence then why would he make this statement!?]


July 5 1977:

The following is also taken from a paper written by Gauridas Pandita Prabhu called “on my behalf”:

One of my services for Srila Prabhupada was to take care of his garden and fan him with the camara while he was there every morning from about sunrise until about 9am. At these times he would chant japa or listen to devotees chant bhajans or read the books to him. Sometimes the secretary, Tamal K.G., would read letters from the devotees. Srila Prabhupada would dictate a response, then the secretary would type it and bring it back later to read it again to Srila Prabhupada who would approve and sign it.

On July 5th Tamal asked Srila Prabhupada about some devotees who wanted to get initiated as he was getting many requests from the Temple presidents. This conversation occurred in the garden as I fanned him.

Srila Prabhupada said: “Tomorrow I will I will announce some ritvik acharyas who will initiate disciples on my behalf when I leave the planet.”

It was actually two days later on July 7th when Srila Prabhupada named the first eleven ritvik acharyas.
June 6 1977


SP writes his Last Will and Testament, and in it, in paragraph 2 he clearly states:

“The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.”

And he goes on to state:

“The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple

NOTE: The first important point here is that the function of a will is to ensure that after one leaves the planet ones desires and wishes are carried out. So I think that one thing we all can agree on is that SP wanted ISKCON to continue indefinitely after SP and all his directly initiated disciples leave their bodies. So how is this to happen if there are no more “initiated disciples” of SP? So how will we continues to follow SP’s order here for things not to change and for the new directors to be his “initiated disciples” if no one can take initiation from SP after his disappearance?

The second point is: why were all these documents, letters and tapes of SP kept onder lock and key and the general body of devotees where refused access to them for many years after SP’s disappearance? And when they finally did let devotees have access to them there where many things missing Could it be because of fear of things like this being discovered?

The third point is: for this day (7-6-77) and the next (7-7-77) there are no tapes of SP!? Interesting coincidence.


Room Conversation July 7, 1977, Vrndavana

[beginning of the tape transcription]

Tamala Krsna: Everything was “probably” in their books.

Prabhupada: “Probably,” “maybe.”

Tamala Krsna: Those are their favorite words. Srila Prabhupada? We’re receiving a number of letters now, and these are people who want to get initiated. So up until now, since your becoming ill, we asked them to wait.

Prabhupada: The local, mean, senior sannyasis can do that.

Tamala Krsna: That’s what we were doing… I mean, formerly we were… The local GBC, sannyasis, were chanting on their beads, and they were writing to Your Divine Grace, and you were giving a spiritual name. So should that process be resumed, or should we…? I mean one thing is that it’s said that the spiritual master takes on the… You know, he takes on the… He has to cleanse the disciple by… So we don’t want that you should have to… Your health is not so good, so that should not be… That’s why we’ve been asking everybody to wait. I just want to know if we should continue to wait some more time.

Prabhupada: No, the senior sannyasis…

Tamala Krsna: So they should continue to…

Prabhupada: You can give me a list of sannyasis. I will mark who will…

Tamala Krsna: Okay.

Prabhupada: You can do. Kirtanananda can do. And our Satsvarupa can do. So these three, you can give, begin.

Tamala Krsna: So supposing someone is in America, should they simply write directly to Kirtanananda or Satsvarupa?

Prabhupada: Nearby. Jayatirtha can give.

Tamala Krsna: Jayatirtha.

Prabhupada: Bhavanan…, er, Bhagavan. And he can do also. Harikesa.

Tamala Krsna: Harikesa Maharaja.

Prabhupada: And… Five, six men, you divide who is nearest.

Tamala Krsna: Who is nearest. So persons wouldn’t have to write to Your Divine Grace. They could write directly to that person?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: Actually they are initiating the person on Your Divine Grace’s behalf. Those persons who are initiated are still your…

Prabhupada: Second initiation we shall think over, second initiation.

Tamala Krsna: This is for first initiation, okay. And for second initiation, for the time being they should…

Prabhupada: No, they have to wait. Second initiation, that should be given…

Tamala Krsna: Should… Some devotees are writing you now for second initiation, and I’m writing them to wait a while because you’re not well. So can I continue to tell them that?

Prabhupada: They can do second initiation.

Tamala Krsna: By writing you.

Prabhupada: No. These men.

Tamala Krsna: These men, they can also do second initiation. So there’s no need for devotees to write to you for first and second initiation. They can write to the man nearest them. But all these persons are still your disciples. Anybody who gives initiation is doing so on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: You know that book I’m maintaining of all of your disciples’ names? Should I continue that?

[Here is a point that can be examined… Why does Tamal ask SP if he should continue entering the names of the ritvik initiated devotees in the book of SP’s initiated disciples? If the only difference is that it will go on with out the direct supervision of SP then why does this question come up of whether or not these ritvik initiated disciples of SP’s names should be entered in the book of SP’s initiated disciples? It seems like a stupid/unnecessary question! – if one is doing something for a long time (ritvik initiations where going on for a few years already) and no changes that effect the outcome of the process of that activity happen, then why would someone ask if a natural result of the activity should be changed?  The only reason would be if an important influential aspect (such as SP leaving the planet and the activity continuing on as it is now with out any change after his departure from the planet) of the activity has changed! Then it will be natural to ask if a detail of the process of that activity or Program should also be changed.  Could it be that because the activity has changed from something that was only going on during SP’s personal presence on the planet to a system that will now continue to go on after SP leaves the planet? Other wise, if there was nothing significant that has changed then what is the need of a very intelligent manager such as Tamal to ask such a silly question as this!

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: So if someone gives initiation, like Harikesa Maharaja, he should send the person’s name to us here and I’ll enter it in the book. Okay. Is there someone else in India that you want to do this?

Prabhupada: India, I am here. We shall see. In India, Jayapataka.


[This is interesting to note: here SP is saying more or less the same thing he said on October 18 1977 where stated And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.” so this could be understood in two ways: 1.) to mean that the Ritvik system is only for the time SP is present on the planet but the flaw with this theory is that the ritvik system that was established by SP half way through the year 1977 will not change or nullify the way in which initiations where going on during SP’s personal presence or his absence so there would be no difference at all in this ritvik system weather it be post or pre departure! So this statement can not be conclusive to discredit a post departure ritvik system.   In otrher words: while SP was personally here ritvik initiations where going on with out his personally and individually reviewing or even in some cases ever meeting the initiate even one time or giving any personal contact at all either by letter, phone, word of moth etc.  he even (tords the end of 1977) never even heard anything at all whatsoever, about who was being initiated on his behalf.  2.) This could also be used to even deeper establish the faith and certainty that SP had in the fact that there is absolutely no difference at all in if one gets ritvik initiation or one gets direct initiation from SP in his physical presence or in his complete absence! Thus further deepening the conviction and faith that SP had in this newly created (to fulfill the need of time place and circumstance) ritvik system of initiations.   I have simply included this because of its relevance] 


Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja.

Prabhupada: You are also in India.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: You can note down these names.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, I have them.

Prabhupada: Who are they?

Tamala Krsna: Kirtanananda Maharaja, Satsvarupa Maharaja, Jayatirtha Prabhu, Bhagavan Prabhu, Harikesa Maharaja, Jayapataka Maharaja and Tamala Krsna Maharaja.

Prabhupada: That’s nice. Now you distribute.

Tamala Krsna: Seven. There’s seven names.

Prabhupada: For the time being, seven names, sufficient. You can make Ramesvara.

Tamala Krsna: Ramesvara Maharaja.

Prabhupada: And Hrdayananda.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. South America.

Prabhupada: So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right… That will depend on discretion.

Tamala Krsna: On discretion.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: That’s for first and second initiations.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. Shall I send a kirtana party, Srila Prabhupada?

[End of the tape transcription]

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversations — July 7, 1977, Vrndavana


July 10 1977

In Yasodanandan Prabhu’s diary On July 8th he wrote:

“Tamal Krishna Maharaja was talking about [with Prabhupada] rtvik gurus to initiate on behalf of Prabhupada after he leaves the planet.”
July 9 1977

On July 9th 1977 SP dictates to Tamal an official letter addressed to all the GBC’s and temple presidents and also SP personally reviews it and signs it to show its authenticity and correctness and that letter is as follows:

July 9th, 1977

To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents

Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “rittik”-representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. His Divine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity:

  • His Holiness Kirtanananda Swami
  • His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami
  • His Holiness Jayapataka Swami
  • His Holiness Tamala Krsna Gosvami
  • His Holiness Hrdayananda Gosvami
  • His Holiness Bhavananda Gosvami
  • His Holiness Hamsaduta Swami
  • His Holiness Ramesvara Swami
  • His Holiness Harikesa Swami
  • His Grace Bhagavan dasa Adhikari
  • His Grace Jayatirtha dasa Adhikari

In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.

Hoping this finds you all well.

Your servant,

Tamala Krsna Gosvami

Secretary to Srila Prabhupada

Approved: A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

[Srila Prabhupada’s signature appears on the original]


SO here is the famous letter that has been used by different partys for different purposes.  But how ever you twist it the use of the word “henceforward” is a very important thing here!  If we study the way SP used the word “henceforward” in his books and also the dictionary meaning of “henceforward” it specifically is used to denote  from now on with out change or adjustment.

And one can say “but SP wanted us all to become Pure devotees (and accept our own disciples) and I have to agree with you but towards the end of his presence on the planet it is clear, and SP even confirmed this in a conversation with Tamal on in 1977 on April 22 in Bombay:

Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?

Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible…

Prabhupada: Hm.

Tamala Krsna: …but not now.

Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, “Now you become acarya. You become authorized.” I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.

Tamala Krsna: The process of purification must be there.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that. Amara ajnaya guru hana [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. “You become guru.” (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower…

Tamala Krsna: Not rubber stamp.

Prabhupada: Then you’ll not be effective. You can cheat, but it will not be effective.


>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — April 22, 1977, Bombay

we were not qualified to become guru’s, we failed in this regard we where not able to come up to the standard or level of Krishna Consciousness or whatever, and in the end SP never eluded to hoping for us to ever becoming advanced pure devotees on high levels of Bhakti rasa.

So unfortunately there where so many horrible things that happened as a result of SP’s officiating acharyas/ritviks (or whatever you want to call them) taking the position of actual Guru’s without having the qualifications and thus getting carried away with the power and their egos and being worshiped as God and having so much money and men at their disposal etc etc and very little actual realization and spiritual advancement. It was a disaster waiting to happen and it did in so many ways that will not be gone into in this paper…


NOTE: for this day that the above letter was written, there is no tapes of SP but Yasodanandana Prabhu states that he happened to be there in the hall when Tamal came out of SP’s room when SP dictated this letter to Tamal and then SP signed it and Yasodha says that he saw Tamal and asked him what he had in his hand and Tamal said it’s a letter from SP and he even let Yasodha read it and Yasodha said what does this mean? And Tamal said it’s about how initiations will be conducted after the departure of SP. and Tamal said, “they’ll be ritvik, its all on tape.”  So we know that there was a tape but it is missing! And according to Yasodha’s recollection SP wanted the ritvik system for initiations to continue after he left the planet.
July 10 1977

in Yasodanandan Prabhu’s diary On July 10th Yasodanandan wrote:

“Tamal Krishna Maharaja comes out of Prabhupada’s room.

TKG: “Haribol, Yasoda, did you see this?”

Yasoda: “No, what is it?”

TKG: “This is signed by Prabhupada.”
[yasodha looks at the July 9th “appointment” letter]
Yasoda: “What does all this mean?”

TKG: “Devotees have been writing to Prabhupada asking for initiations and now Prabhupada has named eleven ritviks who can initiate on his behalf. Prabhupada said others can be added.”

Yasodanandan: “And when Prabhupada departs?”

TKG: “They’ll be ritviks. That’s what Prabhupada said. It’s all on tape.”


July 19 1977

In a room conversation in Vrindavan SP says to a devotee:

“And nobody is going to disturb you there. Make your own field and continue to become rttvik and act on my charge.”

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — July 19, 1977, Vrndavana

Unfortunately the bit of the conversation right before this sentence is cut out (intentionally or not) so we don’t know so much about this but it is clear that SP says “continue to become rttvik and act on my charge.”

NOTE:  from July 20th (the next day) till July 25 and then again from July 28th till 30th there are no tapes of SP!




Gauridas says “After I informed Yasodanandan about Srila Prabhupada’s instructions Tamal K.G. called me into his office and said:

“I told you never to say anything about what Prabhupada says to anybody without clearing it through me first! You’ll never do anything for Prabhupada again!” He told me to ‘get out.’ ”

Why was this? Was there some plan or conspiracy going on or something that was being concealed to the general body of devotees?  Isn’t it that what ever SP says is should be available to all for their Spiritual growth! Why hide things unless ther is some political or ulterior motive?

Some letters from SP to his leading men acting as ritviks


On July 10th Srila Prabhupada wrote to Hansadutta Prabhu:

“You are a suitable person and you can give initiation to those that are ready for it. I have selected you among eleven men as ‘Rittvik representative of the Acharya, to give initiations, both first and second initiation, on my behalf.’ A newsletter is being sent to all temple presidents and GBC in this regard, listing the eleven representatives selected by His Divine Grace. Those who are initiated are the disciples of Srila Prabhupada, and anyone whom you deem fit and initiate in this way, you should send their names to be included in Srila Prabhupada’s ‘Initiated disciples’ book.”

Srila Prabhupada sent a letter to Kirtanananda Swami dated July 11th 1977 in the same way:

“A letter has been sent to all temple presidents and GBC which you should be receiving soon, describing the process of Initiation to be followed in the future. Srila Prabhupada has appointed thus far eleven representatives who will initiate new devotees on his behalf. You can wait for the letter to arrive ( The original has been sent to Rameswara Maharaja for duplicating ) and then all of the persons whom you recommended in your previous letters can be initiated .”

Srila Prabhupada sent another letter to Hansadutta dated July 31st 1977 by paraphrasing my question and answering as follows:

“You have written to Srila Prabhupada saying you do not know why he has chosen you to be a recipient of his Mercy. His Divine Grace immediately replied, ‘It is because you are my sincere servant. You have given up attachment to a beautiful and qualified wife and that is a great benediction. You are a real preacher. Therefore I like you. (Then laughing) Sometimes you become obstinate, but that is true of any intelligent man. Now you have got a very good field. Now organize it and it will be a great credit. No one will disturb you there. MAKE YOUR OWN FIELD AND CONTINUE TO BE RITTVIK AND ACT ON MY BEHALF.'”


On October 18 1977 Srila Prabhupada said:

Srila Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. One Bengali gentleman has come from New York?
Tamal KG: Yes; Mr Sukamal Roy Chowdury.
Srila Prabhupada: So I have deputed some of you to initiate. Hmm?
TKG: Yes. Actually.Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada: So I think Jayapataka can do that if he likes. I have already deputed. Tell him.
TKG: Yes.
Srila Prabhupada: So, deputies, Jayapataka’s name was there?
Bhagavan: It is already on there, Srila Prabhupada. His name was on that list.
Srila Prabhupada: So I depute him to do this at Mayapura, and you may go with him. I stop for the time being. Is that alright?
TKG: Stopped doing what, Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada: This initiation. I have deputed the, my disciples. Is it clear or not?
Giriraja: It’s clear.
Srila Prabhupada: You have got the list of names?
TKG: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada: And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.

 [This is interesting to note: here SP is saying the same thing he said on July 7th  where he was asked “Is there someone else in India that you want to do this (give ritvik initiations)?” and SP says “I am here (India)” so this could be understood in two ways: 1.) to mean that the Ritvik system is only for the time SP is present on the planet but the flaw with this theory is that the ritvik system that was established by SP half way through the year 1977 will not change or nullify the way in which initiations where going on during SP’s personal presence or his absence so there would be no difference at all in this ritvik system weather it be post or pre departure! So this statement can not be conclusive to discredit a post departure ritvik system.   In otrher words: while SP was personally here ritvik initiations where going on with out his personally and individually reviewing or even in some cases ever meeting the initiate even one time or giving any personal contact at all either by letter, phone, word of moth etc.  he even (tords the end of 1977) never even heard anything at all whatsoever, about who was being initiated on his behalf.  2.) This could also be used to even deeper establish the faith and certainty that SP had in the fact that there is absolutely no difference at all in if one gets ritvik initiation or one gets direct initiation from SP in his physical presence or in his complete absence! Thus further deepening the conviction and faith that SP had in this newly created (to fulfill the need of time place and circumstance) ritvik system of initiations.   Again I have simply included this because of its relevance] 
Giriraja: We will explain to him so that he will understand properly.
Srila Prabhupada: Hm? Hm?
Giriraja: I said we will explain to the Bengali gentleman just as you have described to us, so that he’ll be satisfied with this arrangement.

[This is a very interesting thing that Giriraja says here, he says: “we will explain to the Bengali gentleman just as you have described to us” so what is Giriraja referring to  when he says “just as you have described to us”?]
November 10 1977

SP says to his old friend Sastriji (a kaviraje) that “someone has poisoned me”

FACT: There was no medical or practical investigation into this statement by SP

And the conversation ended and was never brought up again by any of SP’s disciples!


 Immediately after SP’s disappearance in November 1977

Tamal sent word to the Bombay temple to prepare Srila Prabhupada’s quarters there for his arrival. Going to Bombay, Tamal moved into Srila Prabhupada’s rooms and set himself up in charge of the huge just, opened complex. The Juhu Beach property was perhaps the premier ISKCON property, and Tamal then ordered a marble Vyasasana for himself. When the Vyasasana arrived and was being installed, Mahabuddhi noticed that it was higher than Srila Prabhupada’s Vyasasana. Mahabuddhi instructed the workers to cut down the legs several feet, which was not pleasing to Tamal. Throughout 1978 Tamal solidified his hold on the Bombay project; at one meeting in the presence of Tamal, some of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples were grilled and harassed, “Do you love Goswami?” Finally the situation became too radical for even Giriraj and Sridhar Swamis, and TKG was summarily ousted while he was visiting the USA, and informed not to return.

An important point in this regard is Srila Prabhupada clearly instructed in his DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT that no body is allowed to occupy his rooms “During my absence no one shall live in my apartment.” So it is had to believe that a big leader and manager like Tamal would have not read this very important legal document that SP specifically wrote to direct the managerial affairs during and after his departure.  One can thus naturally conclude that if Tamal knowingly went directly against SP’s orders and directives in this instance (and in such a offensive disrespectful way to SP) then what other directions and instructions could Tamal have altered and gone against?
November 1977 TKG told Satsvarupa that Srila Prabhupada had wanted us to give him something to make him die. (Isa dasa has the audio of this on his website).

Tamal: “A number of times he (Srila Prabhupada) would say: “Can you give me a medicine, please give me medicine, that will allow me to disappear now.” At other times …”I want most to disappear …I want to die.”

These can not be true statements from SP! a pure devotee is not under the modes of nature and never asks someone else to poison his body to end his Physical pain!   This is obviously a cover up tactic that was made by Tamal to cover him selfor someone else in case the arsenic poisoning was discovered and linked to Tamal

November 1977 TKG declares that he is Srila Prabhupada’s guru successor.

November 1978 TKG begins to say that he is the exclusive “guru shakti” of Srila Prabhupada and he is better than all of the rest of the GBC combined.

1980 TKG  is removed from ISKCON by the GBC and later at Topanga Canyon TKG states that the GBC’s “guru appointment” is a hoax and the worst thing that happened to ISKCON and that SP never appointed any gurus he actually appointed Ritviks!


April 1999

A report was published that included a respected forensic laboratory analysis that was done on various samples of SP’s hair remnants, proving (through a scientific process of analysis that is used by police and FBI etc to determine poisoning cases) that SP had highly lethal traces of arsenic poisoning in his body in the last days of his physical presence and smaller amounts at various times several month before his departure. And these traces of arsenic poisoning could not be linked to any natural condition SP was influenced or effected by during or prior to the time these arsenic traces where found in SP’s body.

Later a study was done by various doctors and others that are familiar with the symptoms of arsenic poisoning and all these experts confirmed that SP had all the signs of a person that had been poisoned by arsenic.

The following is a list of facts and history taken from an interview with Gurukrpa Prabhu on February 04 2009


Gurukrpa: What Really Happened in 1977-78

Feb 04, INDIA (SUN) — Another point of view from Gurukrpa Prabhu.

Dear Prabhus: Gurukrpa is here with me and on his behalf I am writing

Question: What happened the final months of Srila Prabhupada’s
appearance in connection with the process of initiating new devotees?

Gurukrpa: Nothing happened. In the beginning Srila Prabhupada did the
diksa, the yajna and the name giving. As the numbers increased, he
authorized GBC, and senior sannyasis to pick names and chant on the
beads, etc. In 1977 during the months of May, June, July 1977 I was in
Vrindaban with Srila Prabhupada, giving him his massage in his bed
between 1 AM and mangala aratik. During the day, many letters would
arrive. Satsvarupa Swami was the secretary and we decided that only
letters that would give joy to Srila Prabhupada would be read. Like
numbers of books sold, etc. A maximum of five letters daily were read to
Srila Prabhupada.

After some weeks like this, there were stacks and stacks of letters, all
relating to initiation. Hundreds of people were panicking that Srila
Prabhupada would leave the planet before they were given initiation. At
this time, this situation was brought before Srila Prabhupada in his
room by Satsvarupa, Tamal, myself, and maybe some others.

Up until this time it was a very simple matter that we were doing the
initiations, but we first had to ask permission. Srila Prabhupada NEVER
refused any recommendation from his senior men. And personally, I would
sometimes argue with some GBC that they were giving it too easily.

At this meeting, Srila Prabhupada basically said, “From here on, if you
feel they are ready, then you may give the initiation on my behalf.” I
understood this for what it was, simply extending the authority a little
further than it had been. Tamal Krsna Swami, began to say, “But who will
do it?. Which devotees will do this?” Srila Prabhupada said, “The
nearest one will do it. Whoever is closest.” Tamal said, “Can Bhavananda
do? Can Jayapataka do?” Thus these eleven names came out.

Question: Why were you not on the list of eleven?

Gurukrpa: Because it did not matter. Srila Prabhupada said whoever was
closest. I was already doing and Srila Prabhupada never told me or
anyone else not on the list to stop. For myself, it was not very
relevant because I was working in Japan and did not have any new
devotees to initiate.

Tamal Krsna Swami made these list of names himself and Srila Prabhupada
signed the letter. But they were only priests to act on behalf of Srila
Prabhupada. Tamal asked about Bhavananda who was not a TP or a GBC at
that time. And everyone knew well of his homosexual tendencies. But,
Tamal pushed his name, because he was already planning how to take over
when Srila Prabhupada was gone.

Question: How did Tamal Krsna Swami become so influential at this time?

Gurukrpa: Tamal’s original service was as GBC in India. He left that
service without permission and arrived in America. Within one year the
Temple Presidents made a huge complaint to Srila Prabhupada that he was
disrupting the temples by taking important men. I was in the room when
Srila Prabhupada told Tamal to go to China. Hari Sauri’s memory of this
incident is not accurate. Either way, that is another story.

Tamal went to New York to prepare to go to China. And in May 1976, he
showed up in a suit in Honolulu, a broken man. He could not get a visa
to China, he had no service to do in India, and he could not go back to
America, so he was quite depressed. Approximately a day or two later,
Srila Prabhupada called for Tamal and me at about 12:30 AM. He said, “My
feet are swelling, my teeth are getting loose, I am passing urine too
frequently. These are the first signs that death is coming.” Then he
sent us back to bed. The next day TKG volunteered to be Srila
Prabhupada’s secretary, as the service was vacant at that time. From
this position he could control and manipulate the environment around
Srila Prabhupada. I can write many more stories that will shock people
about TKG’s ambitious nature and his desire to take Srila Prabhupada’s

After Srila Prabhupada left, in November 1977, I stayed in Vrindaban
till Gaura Purnima 1978, and there was no discussion of guru during
these three or four months, because Srila Prabhupada’s last instruction,
or as the Ritviks call it, “The final order”, was that “Now we have
build a framework. There is no need to try and expand more. If we can
just maintain our men and increase the chanting and hearing that is
sufficient. We should sit down now and chant and hear.”

There was NO TALK about initiations that I heard either in Vrindaban or
in Mumbai during these months. If Srila Prabhupada has appointed these
eleven as spiritual masters, why did they not start initiating at once?
Because they all knew very well they were never appointed! We knew the
philosophy, what is tattva darshi and what is Saksad Hari… but behind
closed doors there was a plot simmering. In the GBC meeting of 1978 the
initiation issue was brought up and it appeared they had already
concluded that they were going to go ahead and say that they were
appointed. I asked Harikesh sitting next to me, ‘how are you going to
let people call you a paramahansa? You are not a realized soul, you are
a piece of shit. He turned to me with a smrik on his face, and said
“What are you going to do about it?” That is basically what happened,
none of us could do anything after that.

In 1978, Janmastami, TKG came to Vrindavan to give Sannyasa diksa to
Bhagavan. I was the GBC at the time in Vrindavan. TKG called from Delhi
and demanded flower garlands and a large reception greeting at the
temple with vyasasanas for them to sit on. I told them this is
Prabhupada’s temple and everybody can sit on the floor. When they came I
gave them no such reception, and the next morning in Bhagavatwam,
Bhagavan brought his politics into the class. I went and told him, if
you ever do this again, bringing politics into Bhagavatwam class, you
will never speak again in any temple I manage. That day, Bhavananda,
TKG, and Bhagavan asked me to meet them in the guest house for a
meeting. When I came, they said, why are you making waves? Just stop
making trouble about this appointment of gurus and we’ll make you the
12th guru at the next Mayapur meeting. I told them, Prabhupada did not
make anyone guru’s, you have to be a realized soul. They said there was
some talk about you in Japan doing some things, therefore Prabhupada did
not name you. I told them you are now believing your own lies. They were
silent. Bhavananda tried to speak. I told him to shut his mouth because
he was a homosex and he had never done service and had been living off
the money I collected and sent to Mayapur for construction.

Question: So how did everyone become gurus, if Prabhupada did not make
them gurus?

Gurukrpa: Had Srila Prabhupada seen one of us as being capable, he would
have named that person or persons, but he did not mention that anyone
was fit. His Divine Grace B.V. Puri Maharaja, who Srila Prabhupada said
“is the only godbrother who is not envious of me”, ask Srila Prabhupada,
“Please stay another 8 or 10 years with these boys.” Srila Prabhupada’s
answer was, “They are all hard headed, I have done all that I can do.”

Prabhupada said, “I can stay 100 years” many times, but he left after 81
plus a few months.

In the GBC meeting of 1978, they shouted me down and they had already
decided the fix was in. This was how the future of ISKCON was going to

Question: Is the GBC absolute since they are named as the ultimate
managing authority?

Gurukrpa: Prabhupada said the GBC would be the ultimate managing
authority. But that does not mean they are perfect, and they have
perfect vision. The process of the GBC meetings during the years, we
would have the meeting and report the day’s minutes of the meeting
nightly to Prabhupada. Usually it would take 5 days. Prabhupada said, if
you people were competent, you people would be done in 30 minutes. In
1977, Prabhupada told us, just have your meetings and after 5 days give
me all your resolutions. After 5 days of meetings, the GBC filed in his
room, sat down and read the resolutions; and one after another. Srila
Prabhupada said, ‘No I do not want that, no that is not what I wanted’.
He vetoed almost all the resolutions. So to say the GBC is the ultimate
authority is correct, but that does mean that it is absolute. As you can
see by how many gurus have fallen down, and how many GBC’s have had

Guru means one who has no other interest but to realize the absolute
truth, Krishna. The guru must have first realized the Name is
non-different than Krishna. When I first joined the movement, we spent 9
to 10 hours a day chanting in the street. These present GBC’s do not
spend that in a year. Hari nama eva kevalam, in this age only the Holy
Name, only the Holy Name. Your bureaucracy and your management is not
the process. The elitism being shown by the GBCs putting themselves up
on a platform, above all their godbrothers is absolute arrogance and the
greatest sin of pride, the opposite of the humble blade of grass.
Krishna is the one giving all directions for those who can hear Him.

Must of us are now hitting 60 or more. We’ve made successful businesses,
won some, lost some, raised our families, and personally I have gone to
25 straight Kartiks in Vrindavan. We have been excluded from Srila
Prabhupada’s movement, it started in the GBC meeting of 1978. Still
today, the people who have appointed themselves for life have had very
little result. Rabindra Svarupa, the GBC of Hawaii, has come once in 6
years, and he will not give up the position. Kavicandra in Japan has
done nothing there in 25 years. Even one of these GBC gurus does not
wear neck beads, tilak, sikah, or have any faith in the Name is still a
member in good standing. In the west, most of the temples have more
deities than devotees. Most of the devotees are being paid, pujaris
being paid, cooks being paid Temple Presidents are being paid, and they
have to bring Indian devotees just to keep the bare minimum going.

I have witnessed over all these years how the elitist mentality of the
GBC’s and guru’s have excluded all their godbrothers. They have put
themselves on a high pedestal. They have no taste for staying in the
holy dhama’s of Mayapur and Vrindavna, and they run back to their
comfort zones soon as they finish the meetings.

In 1977, during the rainy season, all the GBC’s showed up in Vrindavan..
Srila Prabhupada said, we should go in a room and make out his will for
him, i.e., who would manage what properties and so forth… Kirtanananda
and everyone was there, and they were going on saying someone will do
this, and someone will do that… I noticed how they totally left me
out. So I just went to the Yamuna and took my bath and came back to find
them still dividing everything up. When they were finished, it was
brought into Srila Prabhupada room and read to him as he laid on his
bed. After they finished reading the will, the first question Srila
Prabhupada asked was, ‘Where is Guru-krpa’s name’? I had already opened
a dozen temples and collected the most money in ISKCON history, up to
that point, and they totally left me out. But Srila Prabhupada noticed
it right away. So now, although I am the first executor in his will, and
he told me to develop Hawaii and other places, (you made read the will),
they also have totally neglected that order. Giriraj even came and asked
me if I would resign from the will. I told him, ‘How can I give up the
order of the guru’? It is not as easy for me as you people.

There is no new blood in this organization, things have become stagnated
and dry, not dynamic and the offense of neglecting all their godbrothers
by excluding them from their spiritual birthright, they will have to
answer to Srila Prabhupada for this aparadha.

Question: What is your idea of how the guru-disciple relationship should
now be handled in ISKCON?

Gurukrpa: Love cannot be institutionalized. I fell in love with Srila
Prabhupada the second I saw him. That is why I could surrender to the
depth that I did, to get the insurmountable service I did at that time.
Once in Mayapur, Kirtanananda came to me and said “Why are you giving
all that money to Prabhupada. You should give it to me, in America we
are protected. The communist one day will come and take these buildings
away… Prabhupada is making a big mistake.” I was shocked by what I
just heard. At that time, Kirtanananda was considered by Satsvarupa to
be the greatest of the great, and the most divine of the divine. My
answer was, I do not care what he does with the money. He can flush it
down the toilet, for all I care, I just love to give it to him.

It’s a matter of the heart. According to one’s state of the heart, if
one has many material desires, he may say he loves Bhagavan Sai Baba,
the Pope, Charles Manson. It’s according to one’s sukriti. Krishna is
sitting in one’s heart, He knows exactly what our intentions are. Before
anyone has a right to ask a question, you must first enter the class.
The price is surrender. Those who have not fully surrendered cannot
understand those who have surrendered. Those who have surrendered can
understand about everyone.

Srila Prabhupada initiated thousands, he told me once in his room in
Vrindavan, he said “My guru ordered me to go to the west, and I did
that. My main service was to translate these books and I did that. I
have a personal desire to build these temples in India. That is my
personal program. But they (his disciples) will not give me money and my
head is getting hot. I have to translate these books, write many
letters, and I am thinking how to raise the money to build these temples
because my disciples have their own programs and will not give me
money.” So, seeing Srila Prabhupada like this, I told him that from
today forth, you just translate the books peacefully, and I will take
the headache and go and get the money. When I walked out of the room, I
could not believe what I just said. So to think all the GBC are 100%
surrendered souls, and the gurus are 100% surrendered souls with no
self-interest, and their only interest is to serve Srila Prabhupada
mission, they did not even care during his time (Srila Prabhupada’s
time). Srila Prabhupada said he would be happy, if he could get one
moon. To get one disciple who would be perfect, out of many thousands.
How rare is a personality of Srila Prabhupada’s character.

The GBC’s duty is to see that Srila Prabhupada’s standard is being
maintained. That standard is based on chanting and hearing, also
becoming a lover of Krishna. If Srila Prabhupada said I bless you, I
give you a benediction, it will manifest. He has the right, the adhikari
to do that. If someone else says I am your guru, I am giving you diksa,
can he give you Krishna? Can he give you the Holy Name? Can he take you
to Vaikuntha? Have you been there, has the guru been there? Srila
Prabhupada told me in the car in New Zealand, he turned to me in the car
and said, while you were building Krishna Balarama temple in Vrindavan,
Krishna was building you a house in Goloka. I have seen it, it is very
nice. That is why you can only surrender to the depths, to one who is
from that place, and who can you give you that place, who wants that
place, otherwise it is just a big show. Whistles and bells with no

My view of seeing this organization, it is cronyism. Most of the
leaders, their hearts are still, steel framed, they are self-interested.
They are not self-less. They have stopped somewhere on this road back to
Godhead; they are satisfied with their easy lifestyle, food, respect,
honor, traveling all at the expense of the community and the younger
devotees who go on the street. It’s a long way from chant, dance and be

Question: Then how did it come about that immediately after Srila
Prabhupada was not present physically, these eleven became worshipable
as paramahamsas of the highest order?

Gurukrpa: Because it is the cheaters and the cheated. People are
basically sudras who want a master tell them what to do. They do not
have sufficient intelligence, or spiritual knowledge, therefore they
accepted; and the more realized devotees left, after trying to correct
things. They were told to leave because they were disturbing the faith
of the new disciples.

Because they could not take it anymore anymore they left. Now it has
become like the Pol Pot regime, “accept our way, or die.” Devotees never
die, KRSNA is always in their hearts. They are the losers for losing the
association of their brothers and sisters. The senior men can do
something, otherwise the new men cannot do without the association of
the older devotees.

Most of the older devotees now also do not have the missionary spirit.
Srila Prabhupada said, as a group we can’t be broken, but alone we are
all easily broken.

The leaders have never cared for the godbrothers/sisters. They are happy
when they see their brother get victimized by Maya, and never come to
try and rescue them. Do you think Srila Prabhupada is happy to see the
present leader’s disciples at his temples and not his own disciples????
They talk of love of God, but they do not care one bit for their own
family members, unless the family agrees to accept everything they say.
They have no peers around them that may object to anything.


More from Gurukrpa


Feb 10, INDIA (SUN) — Question: The other day you answered some questions. We have received about 50 responses. People want to know more. Do you have any more to say?

Answer: Srila Prabhupada ordered me to take sannyasa when I was 22 years old. And I objected, but I did it. Then he ordered me to be a GBC when there was only eleven. I was made the twelfth GBC. I never had any interest in this type of management. I only believed that we should surrender ourselves, and chant, dance, hear Srimad Bhagavatam and Gita, and KRSNA will do the rest. Srila Prabhupada told me, “Just surrender to KRSNA and you will never be the loser.” I once asked him what is the most important verse in the shastra and he said:

yasya deve para bhaktir
yatha deve tatha gurau
Tasyaite kathita hy arthau
prakacante mahatmanau 

“Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed.” [CU 6.23]

He also said, “Yasya prasadad bhagavat prasado yasya prasadana gatih kutopi“… This is a descending process. It comes to you when KRSNA is pleased by sincere service. It is ever expanding, and nothing can check it. You cannot force your way through the eight elements to the spiritual world. “ye TU sarvani karmani“. But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Prtha-for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death. Bhagavad-gita 12.6-7 This is the qualification. When KRSNA is pleased with you, HE reveals Himself.

KRSNA said first, “I am talking to you, because you are not ENVIOUS of ME”, and second because you have all these qualities. “One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me-such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.”

Do the GBC leaders have these qualities? They have taken the position as our leaders. We are fallen. They must have more qualities than we have. The do not invite their Godbrothers to participate. And they come to Vrindaban and hide up in Goverdhan with their little programs. I have heard some of them say, “All year we have people talking to us, and now we need a break.” I never heard Srila Prabhupada say this.

One time the very sweet Gurudas Prabhu told Srila Prabhupada, “Sometimes I feel compassionate for the conditioned souls.” Srila Prabhupada answered, “Why not all the time?”

Stop bluffing. You talk the talk. Why not walk the walk? Why not come and offer us some service and see who will take it up?

One time in Hawaii, 1975, Srila Prabhupada flew to the Big Island, just me and him alone looking for Goursundar dasa. And when we found him, Srila Prabhupada sat there and said, “What offense I have done that you have left? Please forgive me. It must have been me.” Tears were rolling out of Srila Prabhupada’s eyes.

Another time when Madhuvisa Prabhu left, I was in New Zealand with Srila Prabhupada. At 3 AM we were talking. He told me, “Do not tell anyone he has left. Keep it in the family.” Again he cried. Srila Prabhupada loved his devotees. How unhappy he is to see Maya reclaim them!

These people can care less. They could care less where any of their Godbrothers are or where they are going, but they take the title of Governing Body Commissioner. They will all have to become dogs and pigs in their next life for this offense, in my opinion.

Now, no one knows who are the HARE KRISHNAS!

The other night, fifty devotees went out in the streets of Kao San Road in Bangkok, packed with thousands of international travelers. Dozens came up and asked, “Who are you? What are you doing?” No one knows us anymore!

Always at Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet,





TODAY (and Tomorrow)

What will you do? If you decide to follow any one who will it be, and will you be doing that following blindly? What will you preach and what, if any, side will you take? Will you try to ignore these above true historical facts?

You are the future!




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