Refutation of Tradition Argument
By Mahesh Raja – Uk
The “Tradition” argument does NOT hold. Srila Prabhupada did many things against the so called Tradition:
1) Traditionally – no Westerners were given Initiation.
2) Traditionally – no Westerners were given Sannyasa.
3) Traditionally – no Acaryas went out of India to Preach.
4) Traditionally – no Tape of Gayatri mantra was used.
5) Traditionally – Ramanvami fast in India is observed till 12.00pm AFTERNOON.
Formalities
TRADITION
Note: it is VERY interesting that Srila Prabhupada has told us to fast till evening/sunset like Ekadasi. Lord Ramacandra appeared NOON time — so ALL the Hindus fast till 12.00pm — AFTERNOON. Now,—- THIS makes Hare Krsna Prabhupadanugas DIFFERENT from Hindus. This is an example that Srila Prabhupada did NOT compromise with the Hindus traditions. Sometimes this Anti Ritvik CROOKS say, “Blah …Blah…. Blah..but…Ritvik there is no tradition.You are not following the traditions” BUT the FACT is—- we are NOT following some blind traditions. We follow PARAMPARA:
JUNG.SYA Carl Gustav Jung Philosophy
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. That is called tradition. That is called tradition. BUT THAT IS NOT PARAMPARA. PARAMPARA IS DIFFERENT. PARAMPARA MEANS WE GET THE RIGHT KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SUPREME.
710407LE.BOM Lectures
So this process should be adopted, how to become sukrtina. Sukrti means yajna-dana-tapa-kriya. One must perform sacrifices as prescribed in the sastras, and they must give in charity their hard-earned money for Krsna’s cause. That is called dana. Yajna, dana, and tapasya. Tapasya. JUST LIKE TOMORROW IS SRI RAMA-NAVAMI. THE TAPASYA WILL BE THAT ALL THE DEVOTEES WILL OBSERVE FASTING FROM MORNING TILL EVENING. THIS IS CALLED TAPASYA. JUST LIKE EKADASI DAY–THERE IS NO EATING SUMPTUOUSLY. SIMPLY YOU TAKE LITTLE FRUITS AND FLOWERS. TRY TO AVOID THAT ALSO. YOU DON’T TAKE EVEN WATER. THAT IS REALLY EKADASI. But because we cannot do it–in the Kali-yuga the time is different–therefore we are allowed to take little fruit and milk, which is called anukalpa. These are different methods of tapasya. And yajna. This yajna, sankirtanaih prayair yajnaih, yajanti hi su-medhasah. In this age you cannot perform that big asvamedha yajna, gomedha yajna, rajasuya yajna, so many other yajnas. It is not possible. First of all, you have no means to perform such yajnas, hundreds and hundreds of tons ghee required for putting into the sacrificial fire. You have not even a drop of your ghee. So forget all those yajnas. In this age,yajnaih sankirtanaih prayaih. That is recommended in the sastra:
krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam
sangopangastra-parsadam
yajnaih sankirtanaih prayair
yajanti hi su-medhasah
So these are pious activities, to perform yajna and to give in charity, yajna, dana and tapasya, accepting voluntarily austerity. That will make you sukrtina. And if you actually become sukrtina, then you’ll be inclined. Because the dirty things will be cleansed by these pious activities, then you will understand. Just like when the sky is cleared of all clouds you can see the sunshine very brilliantly, similarly, you can see Krsna and God very brilliantly as soon as the cloud accumulated in your heart of all dirty things is cleansed. The process of cleansing in this age is this sankirtana yajna. This sankirtana movement is not unauthorized. It is authorized by the sastras. And because they are being properly performed, it is taking effect all over the world.
760211mw.may Conversations
Srila Prabhupada: So today, ekadasi as usual, the Varaha-dvadasi will be also observed and tomorrow breakfast.
Devotee: Breakfast. Fast? No.
Srila Prabhupada: Hm?
Devotee: Fasting tomorrow or…
Srila Prabhupada: No.
Devotee: Krsna: Regular…
Srila Prabhupada: Simply worshiping Varahadeva. Kesava dhrta-sukara-rupa, jaya jagadisa hare. That take.
Devotee: Between 8:50 and 10:00 we should break the fast.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee: Krsna: Is that called parayana?
Srila Prabhupada: Eh? Parayana.
Devotee: There’s a very famous lecture you gave, Srila Prabhupada, one day on a Varaha-dvadasi, where you sang Jaya Jagadisa and then you explained it. A very wonderful lecture.
Devotee:: AND THE DAY AFTER IS NITYANANDA’S AVIRBHAVA.
Srila Prabhupada: OH, THEN HALF-DAY FASTING.
Devotee: Wow.
Devotee: Auspicious alignment.
Devotee:: (break) …on your appearance day and Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati’s and Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Gaura Kisora’s we should observe half-day fast. I have a question that on all the other auspicious days, just like Narottama dasa Thakura and others, should we also observe half-day fast?
Srila Prabhupada: IT IS… BUT IF YOU CANNOT, THAT IS ANOTHER…
Devotee: Sometimes because of the sankirtana…
Srila Prabhupada: No, no. If you cannot, you can take.
Devotee: And just sing some songs and praise.
Srila Prabhupada: YES. YES. KIRTANA IS MAIN THING.
Devotee: And if possible, then the fasting.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee: I see. (break) …is up till sun…
Srila Prabhupada: UP TILL SUNSET. LORD RAMACANDRA.
Devotee: Also. And Srimati Radharani?
Srila Prabhupada: Half.
Devotee: Half day. (break)
Srila Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Devotee: What kind of fast is that?
Srila Prabhupada: BALARAMA? HALF DAY. It is fifteen days before Janmastami.
Devotee: We should always chant twenty-five rounds on ekadasi if initiated.
Srila Prabhupada: Initiated? Everyone. Why initiated?
Devotee: So that should be standard for our movement on ekadasi day?
Srila Prabhupada: Standard is sixteen, but if one can chant more, then he is welcome.
Devotee: It’s not mandatory for ekadasi.
Devotee: Recommended.
Srila Prabhupada: NO. EKADASI MEANS THAT, FASTING AND CHANTING.
Devotee: Sometimes I’m wondering, because our men have to go out on book distribution.
Srila Prabhupada: NO, NO. THAT IS ALSO PREACHING WORK. FOR THAT PURPOSE YOU CAN STOP THIS, BUT GENERALLY, ONE WHO HAS NO PREACHING WORK, HE CAN CHANT.
Devotee: Extra.
Srila Prabhupada: Extra.
Devotee: I see. (end)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“No. Tradition, religion–they are all material. They are also all designation.” (Conv., March 13, 1975)
“Our only tradition is how to satisfy Vishnu.” (Lecture, July 30, 1973)
AN ACARYA WHO COMES FOR THE SERVICE OF THE LORD CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO CONFORM TO A STEREOTYPE
Note: Sometimes the bogus gbc self made guru supporters argue Ritvik system is not in our tradition.
750213rc.mex Conversations
Srila Prabhupada: THAT TRADITION IS NOTHING. TRADITION IS JUST TEMPORARY. YOU MAKE YOUR TRADITION; HE MAKES YOUR TRADITION. That is another thing. But the, fact is fact. That is not dependent on tradition. TRADITION WE CAN MAKE, TRADITION. “WE BELIEVE.” JUST LIKE SOMEBODY SAYS, “WE BELIEVE.” WHAT IS THE USE OF SUCH SAYING, “WE BELIEVE”? YOU MAY BELIEVE SOMETHING WHICH IS NOT FACT.
JUNG.SYA Carl Gustav Jung Philosophy
Prabhupada: Yes. That is called tradition. That is called tradition. BUT THAT IS NOT PARAMPARA. PARAMPARA IS DIFFERENT. PARAMPARA MEANS WE GET THE RIGHT KNOWLEDGE FROM THE SUPREME. It is not something ac…, what is called? What he is speaking?
Syamasundara: Acquired. Archetypal. Means the original type.
Srila Prabhupada: My acquired knowledge can be changed by understanding from superior. Just like generally we have got bodily concept of life, but Krsna says, “No. You are not this body.” SO THIS KNOWLEDGE IS NOT COMING TO ME FROM TRADITION, BUT I LEARN IT FROM GREAT AUTHORITIES LIKE KRSNA.
(Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta,Adi-lila,7:37,purport)
“Every acarya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. THEREFORE, THE METHOD OF ONE ACARYA MAY BE DIFFERENT THAN THAT OF ANOTHER, BUT THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS NEVER NEGLECTED.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4:8:54,purport)
“AN ACARYA WHO COMES FOR THE SERVICE OF THE LORD CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO CONFORM TO A STEREOTYPE, for he must find the ways and means by which Krsna consciousness may be spread.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila,7.31-32,purport)
1st and 2nd initiations are FORMALITIES:
761016iv.cha Conversations
Srila Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is FORMALITY. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is FORMALITY. THAT IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING.
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4:8:54, purport)
“Srimad Viraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The FORMALITIES may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas.”
Note: Srila Prabhupada had put in force the July 9th 1977 Ritvik Initiation which are FORMALITIES. So FORMALITES of Initiation of 1st and 2nd Initiation did NOT require Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence and the devotees were even INITIATED under his instruction by RITVIKS. This was UNPRECEDENTED. There was NO authority given by Srila Prabhupada to discontinue the Ritvik System. FACT!
69-10-31. Letter: Dinesh
REGARDING THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION COMING FROM ARJUNA, DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN THAT ONE HAS TO BE INITIATED OFFICIALLY. DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION MEANS TO ACCEPT THE DISCIPLIC CONCLUSION. Arjuna was a disciple of Krishna and Brahma was also a disciple of Krishna. Thus there is no disagreement between the conclusions of Brahma and Arjuna. Vyasadeva is in the disciplic succession of Brahma. The teachings to Arjuna was recorded by Vyasadeva verbatim. So according to the axiomatic truth, things equal to one another are equal to each other. We are not exactly directly from Vyasadeva, but our Gurudeva is a representative of Vyasadeva. Because Vyasadeva and Arjuna are of equal status, being students of Krishna, therefore we are in the disciplic succession of Arjuna. Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another.
74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
IN MY books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.
73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa, Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. THERE IS NO NEED WHATSOEVER FOR ANY OUTSIDE INSTRUCTION.
Note: The argument that Ritvik system has no tradition is LAME EXCUSE – In Kali Yuga it is Pancaratrika-vidhi. Other Yugas have did NOT have Pancaratrika-vidhi.
721027ND.VRN Lecture
So we are trying to follow Sanatana Gosvami. By diksa-vidhanena, by imitating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the diksa-vidhana is performed according, according to Pancaratrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the sudras, there was no initiation. A brahmana ksatriya, vaisya. So these are the Vedic process. SO IN THE KALI-YUGA, BECAUSE IT IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT EVERYONE IS A SUDRA, THEREFORE VAIDIKA-VIDHANA CANNOT BE APPLIED. VAIDIKA-VIDHANA REQUIRES THAT ONE MUST BE BORN BY A BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA. THEN HE’S ELIGIBLE FOR BEING INITIATED. BUT IN THE KALI-YUGA, THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. THEREFORE THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED.
680724IN.MON Lecture
sruti-smrti-puranadi-
pancaratriki vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
This is the definition given by Srila Rupa Gosvami, that to become a devotee of the Lord, Krsna, one has to follow the principles of sruti and smrti, and pancaratriki-vidhi. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, there is no Vedic vidhi. Because Vedic vidhi is lost. Formerly, initiation was offered to a person who is actually born of a brahmana father. Otherwise… Or the higher caste, the brahmanas, the ksatriyas, and the vaisyas, they were offered initiation, and the sudras were not offered. That was the Vedic system. But in this age the sastra says that kalau sudra sambhava. IN THIS AGE OF KALI PRACTICALLY THERE IS NO MORE ANY BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA, OR VAISYA. MAYBE BY NAME, BUT IN QUALIFICATION THEY ARE NOT EXISTING. EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SUDRA. SO IN KALI-YUGA THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED. The pancaratriki-vidhi is also Vedic vidhi, corollary, given by Narada Mahamuni. But it is accepted by the Vedic followers, pancaratriki-vidhi.
Pancaratriki-vidhi means if any one has a little inclination for spiritual development, he should be given chance. This initiation means to give chance. The Bhagavata says that kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah. These are the list of the candalas or less than the sudras. So Bhagavata gives open road for everyone. Even one is kirata… Kirata means… Generally they are called aborigines, or the very black aborigines living in the jungles, they are called kirata.
Note: Traditions that Srila Prabhupada DISCARDED :
68-03-26 Letter: Mukunda
I am very glad that you are repentant even for some action which is not sanctioned by me. This attitude is very nice and improves one in progressing on the path of devotional service. The Rakhi Bandhan ceremony observed by you under instruction of Prasad isn’t approved by our Vaisnava rituals.Of course, such ceremony is observed among the Hindu community as a socio-religious convention. BUT IN OUR VAISNAVA COMMUNITY THERE IS NO SUCH OBSERVANCE. Now, forget the incidence, and in future don’t be misled by some unauthorized person.
Note: also that during the Diwali there is Hindu tradition of fire crackers – we do not take part.
During Holi festival Hindus celebrate by color throwing tradition – we do not take part. So traditions are not the real issue—at all. Anti Ritviks want to somehow JUSTIFY THEIR MONEY SCREWING SLAVERY MAKING BUSINESS this is why they use the “Tradition” argument. They are CROOKS! Where is Tradition argument? ALL their “Tradition” points have been DEFEATED.