Recent PADA newsletters are available all the time at:
http://blog.myspace.com/52199499. PADA news is an information service for
the devotees of ISKCON. We do not always endorse all the letters we get
from others. Nor can we independently verify each and every statement found
in letters to PADA. And sometimes -- we write spoof for comic relief. Let
us know if you do not wish to receive this news letter. Thanks Puranjana
dasa 707-477-4102
==========================
1) HAWAII DEVOTEES Hire Forensic Auditor
2) SRILA PRABHUPADA's ORDERS for ISKCON
3) Challenges, Criticisms, Divisions and Cohesions (Kapil gurukuli)
4) Travelling Preachers BY: MAHAVIDYA DASA (ACBSP)
5) Many Societies and Associations of Pure Devotees BY: BHAGAVAT DAS (ACBSP)
* PADA archives: http://harekrsna.org
* PADA music: http://myspace.com/trancelooper
* http://gitagita.com/en/prabhupada/018.html
* http://www.prabhupadanugaspress.com
* Jaya Radha Madhava: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGWVBLxaB14
* Jaya Radha Madhava by child: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJsqsbf7IOA
* Sita Rama bhole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKFPuxpXdWM
=========================
* PADA has heard a rumor that Jayapataka and Radhanatha are potentially
discussing or maybe even planning a possible physical assault on the
Bangalore temple with a number of violent goondas, to take it over by
force. IRM guys, you should get going on the PADA issues: molesting,
poison, fraud and embezzling, and quit playing kindergarten patty cakes
with these bogus GBC gurus! Thanks pd
=========================
SAVING ISKCON! It seems that there is a provision in the "Windle Turley
Lawsuit" that the ISKCON leaders will have to pay $6,000,000 (six million
dollars) within four years or face losing some / many / maybe all of their
ISKCON properties which can then be seized by the courts and auctioned off
to pay the molestation settlement. This is not too surprising when we
consider that the Catholic Church has had to sell off properties to pay
their molesting lawsuits. PADA would like to get more factual details of
the terms of this legal settlement as well as specific timelines for
payments and so on.
At the same time, PADA proposes a very practical solution to the problem of
"paying off" the ex-gurukula students. The GBC says they want to keep the
ISKCON properties in the ISKCON family, and not let the properties be sold
off to outsiders. Great. So all the bogus GBC gurus have to do is: sign
over the properties to the entire group of ex-gurukukis named in the
lawsuit, perhaps in some type of collective property trust or something
like that. And then the bogus GBC will not "own" any of the property, so it
cannot be taken away, rather it will already have been transferred to the
complaintant members of the Windle Turley lawsuit. In other words, give the
properties to the complaintants in a pre-emptive manner. Many ex-gurukulis
are already clamoring to take over the Los Angeles temple, so give it to
them. And we know of many other ex-kulis who would like to be part of an
ISKCON temple, just not part of the current system.
At least this would be better than the court auctioning off the properties
wholesale and giving the property to outsiders who have no interest in
ISKCON. Of course some have said that a number of these ex-kulis are bitter
at ISKCON and they would not help. Perhaps, but there are also many
sympathizers to Krishna in that group. At least there would be a fighting
chance of working something out. Perhaps the ex-kulis who wanted to take
over the properties and maintain the temples could try to guarantee some
form of payment to the disgruntled persons. In any case, then the family of
ISKCON will be involved in the fate of ISKCON. And at least some of the
elders / parents of the victims could then try to work with the ex-children
who had signed onto the lawsuit, it would make for more involvement of more
actual ISKCON devotees.
The current process seems to exclude the mass of devotees as well as the
feelings of the ex-kuli victims and their parents. In any case, it seems
that either the bogus GBC gurus "work out a deal" to hand over property to
the kulis or they might face losing properties anyway. No wonder so many of
the bogus GBC gurus looked fried and downright downtrodden at their recent
Texas meeting. Of course, only a few of them could leave their tantric
voodoo ghost busting meetings to attend. They know they are going to lose
in any case, it is a lose, lose, and did we forget to mention "lose"
situation for them.
Generally, we find that the bogus GBC are more interested in giving huge
salaries to their dedicated lackeys than paying the molested kulis. For
example Kuladri is said to be getting over $60,000 a year for his salary.
If the bogus GBC gurus and their lackeys simply gave up their fat salaries,
and quit paying for their lawyers big Mercedes and San Fernando Valley
Offices, it would be easy to raise millions. Problem is, most of these
lackeys are there not to serve Krishna, but to serve themselves. And as
soon as their salary is cut off they will leave. In any case, it might come
down to: give it away to the victims or give it away to the outsiders, and
if that occurs this would prove for sure that the bogus GBC gurus are
servants of Kali Yuga, which many already suspect that they are. By the
way, there is a clamor by the bogus GBC gurus to make an ISKCON school in
England (another Hindu fund raising scam) run by one of the ex-gestapos of
the gurukula, a guy named Gauri Dasa. Please write to the Harrow Council
and protest making a school with Hitler's Auschwitz for kids generals in
charge. Thanks pd
barry.macleod-cullinane@harrow.gov.uk,
marilyn.ashton@harrow.gov.uk,
david.ashton@harrow.gov.uk,
==========================
1) HAWAII DEVOTEES Hire Forensic Auditor
http://iskconhawaii.blogspot.com/
http://dirkvg.com/
"Dear Mr. Schweigert: It was a pleasure meeting you at District Court
yesterday. I applaud your suggestion to continue the TRO hearing for two
weeks. By return letter, please advise me of the date and time for the next
scheduled hearing. For convenience and future reference, the paragraphs
herein below are numbered: 1. As you now know, the temple devotees have
developed a list of people who they believe to be congregational members of
ISKCON Hawaii, Inc. Of the ninety-two people on the list, I have contracts
from over 60% of the names on the list who have engaged me "to review,
evaluate and report on any and all issues of Iskcon Hawaii, Inc. as Dirk
von Guenthner & Associates shall determine after input by its clients.'"
[PADA: OK, the temple belongs to "the congregation" and "the temple
president" is supposed to be elected (see Srila Prahbupada's letter below).
Now a group of the "congregation members" in Honolulu ISKCON has hired a
professional financial auditor to find out where all of ISKCON Hawaii's
money has been going. Good progress. PADA is very pleased to see that the
ISKCON Hawaii congregation is FINALLY asking for a full financial
accounting of all the complex webs and nests of financial imbroglio
reportedly going on over there (adminstered by followers of the bogus GBC's
gurus). The process of financial accountability for ISKCON is long, long
overdue.
Isn't it about time we asked, "Where is the ISKCON money going"? So much
money has been going into ISKCON, and yet we keep finding that many of the
important projects that ISKCON leaders are supposed to maintain are in
financial disarray, projects are decreasing or dwindling to "bare bones,"
and sometimes projects are being shut down, sold and etc. A devotee from
England says that the Bhaktivedanta Manor had deteriorated into severe
disrepair, the Atlanta temple was shut down for some time due to "health
department concerns," the Los Angeles restaurant was shut down due to
infestations, the entire program in Khazakstan did not have proper building
permits according to a local devotee, Germany is "bankrupt," France has "a
crisis," and so on and so forth.
Meanwhile, Gita Nagari reportedly looks like a used car wrecking yard with
auto parts debris strewn around, as well as other dismantled machines etc.
-- begging the question, what happened to the maybe millions of dollars
that was collected for this project? More importantly for PADA and for
ISKCON, millions of dollars was collected to fund "the ISKCON second
generation gurukula children." Yet we often hear many reports that: The
children were being starved and sometimes being fed rotten moldy oatmeal;
There was sometimes a lack of funds for soap -- so some kids got lice for
months on end; Some kids had no bathing towels; Some kids had no
toothpaste, Some kids had no medicine and so they suffered for years
without getting proper health items treated; Some kids had their broken
bones miscast by idiots and the bones healed incorrectly; Some kids died
from medical neglect -- ad infinitum.
Where did the kid's money go -- that was meant for these children? And is
it not criminal fraud that their money was diverted? In sum, many of the
ISKCON children were in what one ex-gurukuli tells PADA has been "Auschwitz
for children." A concentration camp with added fun for kiddies -- like
beatings, broken bones, molesting and so on and so forth. Now this begs the
question, "Where was all the money going, since it was not going to the
children"? OK. We all know, the ISKCON money was going into the pockets of
the bogus, fat, powerful GBC gurus, for their opulent vehicles, houses,
servants, gun collections, drugs, detective noir DVD collections, unlimited
funds for medical expenses, and of course their paid up salaried
assistants, gangs of goondas etc., who were on hand to beat up the
disciples of Srila Prabhupada should they be foolish enough to venture onto
ISKCON property.
Why has this "accounting" never been explained or is still barely even
mentioned by the ISKCON leaders? And isn't the same process still going on
even now, the mass of devotees (and their children) are STILL having
ISKCON's money siphoned off to these elite leaders, who are still
advertising to recruit dedicated lackeys by offering big salaries.
Meanwhile, no one explains why these same leaders mistreated the children
so badly -- so their big fat guru leaders could live like giant hogs with
opulent plush rugs, gold rings, gold pens, silk underwear, fifty course
feasts, gold and ruby jewelry, Bahama retreats, massages, and so on. Why is
this "financial accounting" never forwarded into a court? Why aren't the
parents getting together and saying, my kid had lice for six years, my kid
was starved and his growth was stunted, my kid had his teeth knocked out by
Dhanurdara, my kid has become a drug addict, my kid hates Krishna --
despite we paid thousands for him to love Krishna. Hence: why don't we
disgruntled parents form up a lawsuit and demand to know why OUR ISKCON
children's money was siphoned off for the benefit of an elite few? Why is
this taking such a long time?
Why is it that guys like Gopal Bhatta are still defending the child
molester regime, when his own child hates the child molester regime? Why
are some of the parents still criminally negligent? Why have so many
"adults" not been able to admit that their acquiescing with the child
molester guru cult has imperiled their own children? And why is it that yet
other parents are sending their kids off to "take shelter of" Narayana
Maharaja, one of the biggest pillar cheerleaders of the child molester
messiahs regime, and current holder of a de facto GBC guru franchise.
Narayana Maharaja has also siphoned off many followers and money from
ISKCON because he was the lead "philosophical apologist" for the molester
regime. The bogus GBC deputed Narayana Maharaja to help them patch over
their child molesting regime, and so he came up with the idea that "the
children are just getting their karma when they got molested."
Quite honestly, some of the kids committed suicide after hearing Narayana
Maharaja's EXTREMELY ODIOUS explanation, and so he is responsible for the
deaths of some of our children, and he is our new hero? Yes it is true,
even according to Narayana Maharaja, meeting him and partaking in his
molester guru regime is very bad karma. So at least Narayana Maharaja
admits that meeting him is like meeting the Devil: "You met me, and I
stepped on your kids with my giant jackboots, so you all got bad karma by
meeting me, Mr. Narayana Maharaja, top cheerleader of the child molester
pooja regime." At least he admits he behaves like Satan, "Associating with
me is bad karma, your kids might not even survive meeting with me"! Good
progress! We at least got NM to admit he is bad karma for kids! Mass
murderer Jeffrey Dahmer speaks like Narayana Maharaja, "The people who came
to my house, ... they had bad luck." Oh the tender mercies here!
Narayana Maharaja has been acting like a Papal apologist of medieval times,
"Yes we burned your grandma at the stake, but hey, we will bless you if you
keep your big fat trap shut and quit complaining." And parents are still
sending their kids off to this man, who helped orchestrate the molesting
regime and he -- blames the victims! So Narayana Maharaja is the person who
gave the supporting siddhanta for the child abuse regime, and he helped
orchestrate the molesting thereby, and so now he is siphoning off money
from ISKCON. Meanwhile, there is not much money left to run the Child
Protection Office, or money for the victims and so on. Why are we not
getting to the bottom of this rotten pile of garbage, and finding out where
the stink is coming from?
Now a few ex-gurukulis in Los Angeles are saying, hey, let us get rid of
Svavasa, his big BMW, and his crew of hired henchmen, and hand the place
over to the ex-kulis. Why not give at least one place to the ex-kulis to
manage? Nope, the elderly statesmen bogus GBC gurus, all of them already
looking like the skeleton of death from the movie "Ghost of the Barbary
Coast," are unable to let their bony grip off the ISKCON properties, and
train up some new people to run something. So, this is why PADA says, get a
lawsuit together, sue them for the criminal fraud and neglect of the
children, and get rid of these bums.
Then give the property to some ex-kulis to manage. All of our "elderly
statesmen biggest cheeze head gurus of the universe" are all going to be
dead and gone very soon anyway, so why not give the youth a chance? And if
not, why not force these bogus gurus to give the ex-kulis a chance with
lawsuits? And why is Hrdayananda still driving his town car up to the Los
Angeles temple, "Yes I stole all your kids money so they could starve and
sit in a pile of lice, so I could eat like a fat pig, and get a big town
car, and be sitting in Beverly hills watching the Sunday football game on
my seventy inch big screen tv." And many idiot parents are still offering
obeisnaces to these guys -- who orchestrated the death camps for their
children!
This is worse than the Saturday nite fright nite movie because, this is
really occuring! And the poor ex-starved kids have to watch while Gopal
Bhatta, Nirantara, Govinda Datta, Svavasa, Sura and others wipe clean
Hrdayananda's jack booties with their hankies, while they are shedding
tears of happiness at their pedophile pooja pal and saint, the biggest
child haters on the planet posing as saints. Yep Hrdayananda stood up and
said "We need to keep Bhavananda, he is doing so much service
(orchestrating mass molesting)." And Narayana Maharaja and Gaura Govinda
Maharaja say, we need to keep Tamal. Ummm, because then we will have
Bhavananda and all the molester nests and webs? Birds of a feather. To sum,
Hawaii devotees, bravo! Sue da bums! Thanks pd]
Letter to: Gurudasa — Los Angeles 2 March, 1970 70-03-02 London My Dear
Gurudasa,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your two
letters dated 20 and 26 February, 1970, respectively, and I am so glad to
learn that you have been elected president for this year. In India, when
there was congress election among the executive members, each year a person
was elected president. I think this system may be followed in our
institutions also. Of course it will depend on the local situation, but in
a round if each person is given the chance of managing the whole affairs,
that means everyone becomes responsible officer.Another thing is that so
long I have been receiving different questions from the students, now I
think all these questions should be answered by the presidents locally. So
you study all our books very nicely, and all the doubts and questions may
be answered by you locally. In case of difficult questions, it may be
referred to me. That will give all the presidents the chance of being
skillful in solving the doubts and problems of the local students. I hope
you will like this idea.Regarding the three boys whose letters accompany
yours, and whom you have recommended for initiation, I am sending their
beads duly chanted by separate post. The initiation requires some Guru
daksina, so during the time of initiation, the disciple must collect some
alms and present it to the Spiritual Master. That is the system.I have
received the slides formerly when you wrote that there were four slides,
but I received only two. This time there are seven slides. They are very
beautiful, and I thank you very much.
Hope this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,A.C. Bhaktivedanta SwamiACBS:
=================================
2) SRILA PRABHUPADA's ORDERS for ISKCON
Thanks for your question about "ISKCON gurus" Bhakta Charles. First of all,
Srila Prabhupada said all along, perhaps hundreds of times from 1967-1977:
-- after he departs there will only be a Governing Body (managerial) and
NOT (diksha) GURUS. Ample citations -- both spoken and in written
documents -- are given to us by Srila Prabhupada prove this. Emphasis on
"ample." And many of these citations from Srila Prabhupada have been amply
provided on our sister web site: http://harekrsna.org, and there are many
additional quotes we did not include to keep the volume of some of our
documents more compact. Moreover he repeatedly said he did not want any
sort of imitation (diksha) gurus to emerge after his departure as occured
in the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha.
Indeed in early 1977 Srila Prabhupada stated that none of his leaders are
qualified for renunciate / sannyasa status and that "everyone should get
married" (definitely not qualified for guru). Srila Prabhupada furthermore
constantly reminded his followers to be careful not to dismantle his
"managing" idea and concoct false gurus -- as the deviants did in the
post-1936 Gaudiya Matha. He was asked the question from Satsvarupa Maharaja
on May 28th 1977, "How will initiations be conducted in the future when you
are no longer with us," ... and Srila Prabhuapada replies that after I am
gone -- future initiations will be conducted by my appointing "officiating
acharyas," or (ritvik) priests (part of his "Governing Body" process, a
system of monitored priests).
He furthermore states on May 28th that these officiating devotees (priests
or ritviks) will sometimes deviate and have to be replaced (which again
means: they are not fit for guru). And he furthermore states that the
leaders are not yet qualified to be gurus because "the training" is not yet
complete, and furthermore -- that they need to "get the order" to be guru,
but he is not giving that order now, and so on and so forth. So it turns
out that the main "evidence that Srila Prabhupada appointed gurus," does
not indicate any appointment of gurus, rather it says that he will give the
order at such time as "the training is complete," but they are not yet
qualified to be gurus -- rather they are neophytes -- "in training":
kindergarten children with training wheels on their bicycles.
Of course when kindergarten children are riding their bicycles with
training wheels on it, then the bogus GBC/ Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari/
BV and BP Puri/ Gaura Govinda maharaja et al. team say that we should put
these kindergarten children at the helm of a Boeing 747 and have them fly
it from New York city to Moscow in the middle of a hurricane storm, to the
peril of everyone concerned. Then they start drooling on themselves in
disbelief when their neophyte pilots crash the airplane -- and this kills
most of the passengers in the process. Worse, they say Srila Prabhupada had
wanted and ordered these neophytes to "become gurus" right away, when just
the opposite is true, he said they are not fit for guru status.
Oddly, later on it was the bogus GBC who insisted that we have the May 28th
1977 audio tape checked over by professional audio experts -- since there
are PERSISTENT rumors that the tape may have been "cut and paste"
"spliced-up" by the bogus GBC. (Sorry Kailaish, we did not pay for the
expert's analysis, the bogus GBC paid Mrgendra / aka Harevey Mechanic to
have it done for us). And not really to PADA's surprise: the bogus GBC's
own audio forensic expert, Mr. Norman Perle of San Fernando Valley CA, said
that the tape was consistent with editing and tampering. So it seems that
their whole case to be gurus rests on a few words from this one tape, a
tape which their own expert says is consistent with being tampered. Yet if
we study ALL of the actual words on the actual tape, we find it does not
appoint anyone as guru. The tape merely says that one "becomes guru when
the training is complete" (and one is pure), i.e. NOT NOW!
So their own tape certifies our position, that they are not yet pure and
fit to be gurus. Also, simply study the statement "become guru when the
training is complete," ok that means they are not yet gurus. Then it merely
gets worse for the bogus gurus, since there is also the spectre that their
main claim to being gurus is from this one single tape: which they
themselves admit is perhaps a tape they unlawfully spliced and modified,
proven by their hiring a forensic audio expert who says their tape is --
basically bogus. There are certainly odd clicks, odd "cut-off half words"
and so on, which us and Sulochana heard in 1984 when he bribed someone for
a copy of the tape. We were amazed at the amount of clicks and chopped-up /
cut-off words ourselves, and we are not even experts. Then again why wasn't
the "guru appointment tape" circulated, and then Sulochana was told by
Ramesvara we'd be "dead meat on a hook" if we did circulate the tape?
And why did Mula Prakriti dasi (Mrs. Dougherty) tell PADA that she thought
that the GBC leaders like Ramesvara had spliced up some other tapes. So
therefore, in light of all this, we would have to go to the back-up context
of the tape, the thousands of other tapes and letters and legal documents
which only "order" -- a Governing Body, and we do not see any other
evidence for gurus out of the context of all his other statements and
documents. In other words, even if the May 28th tape suddenly appointed
neophytes as messiahs, we would have to question why there is no such other
documents to support that view? So we have to keep everything in context,
that Srila Prabhupada was always saying there is only going to be managers
and not gurus.
These are merely a few samples of the numerous points that Srila Prabhupada
had not ordered or desired anyone to act in the capacity of full fledged
diksha guru, acharya, messiah, etc. Yet after 1977 the bogus GBC leaders
insisted that they were diksha gurus, acharyas, Vishnupadas, Gurupadas,
Acharyapadas, Krishnapadas, as good as Jesus, messiahs for the age, etc.
And this simply produced all too numerous unresolved oddities. For example,
the question of "who absorbs the sins" came into question right away in
1978. And since the diksha guru is said to absorb the sins, this provided a
handy tool for the ersatz GBC's regime to provide some of their bogus gurus
with all sorts of: alcohol, marijuana, peppermint schnops, vodka, whiskey,
beer, cigarettes, percodan, zantac, LSD, and all kinds of other
psychotropic drugs, as well as some unknown drugs from their voodoo tantric
witch doctors like "pagal baba ashram" Chitesvara, all because "the guru is
sick because he is absorbing sins, so he needs to get loaded on dope to
cure his sickness from absorbing sins." Yep, the messiah is actually the
village drunk, who knew!
In other words, the question of how a neophyte could "absorb sins" and act
as a diksha guru in the first place has never been resolved / discussed at
all, what to speak of discussed threadbare. And so all kinds of crack pot
situations have evolved, for example Hansadutta was arrested for being
intoxicated and shouting on an airplane at the airport -- in front of
hundreds of his followers. And more recently a person saw Satsvarupa
speaking very slurred speech "Arrrre yuu-uuh praaaah--bhuuuzzzz shanting
yerrr roundzzzzzz?," with droopy eyes and unsteady gait, and our associate
said to this person, "Oh there is nothing wrong with him, he is just loaded
on pills, and he even calls himself the guru of (psychotropic) pills." So
now the messiah has to be a drug addict, or else he cannot act as messiah?
Then again a Vipramukhya follower told PADA proudly that "my guru always
gets sick and vomits just after he gives and initiation, because he is
absorbing so many sins, and that makes him sick to his stomach." No, this
is not a good sign, that means Vipramukhya is not qualified to absorb said
sins? Then again a woman told us she had collected hundreds of dollars so
that Satsvarupa could get some expensive medications for his headaches, and
another follower told us she was buying bottles of percodans for her guru's
headaches and so on. Therefore "the question of how the neophyte can absorb
sins" has not EVER been resolved because -- the neophyte cannot absorb
sins. Then again when Prithu was involved in his alleged masturbation
imbroglio, and he was going to jump out a window in Germany, his followers
said, "He is acting strange because he has absorbed too many sins." So
instead of seeing that their gurus are not qualified, layers upon layers of
false justifications, lies, half-truths, prevarications, and no small
amount of changing the shastra is employed to "explain" how the pure
devotees are acting like wild lunatics just escaped from the mad house.
So, when we ask how a neophyte can absorb sins and act like a messiah (or a
Jesus) in this capacity, we find that not only our opponents have no
answer, their answer is that the messiah needs to become a drunkard and
drug addict in order to function as a messiah. Wowsers! In this case PADA
editor hereby volunteers to be their next messiah, so please send over our
cases of wine, whiskey, vodka, percodans, female massage servants, ohh and
we'll take a nice big Burgundy town car like Hrdayananda's, and don't
fergit our Beverly Hills guru house ---- right away! Now the guru also
needs female massage experts? So this is why we can say that they were
never ordered to be guru, they are not qualified to be gurus. Oh duh, dudes
and dudettes!
To sum, Srila Prabhupada said thousands of times, after I am gone there
will be ONLY a GBC, this is in many thousands of statements, the will, the
DOM, many letters, and moreover: do not make bogus diksha gurus. Why would
Srila Prabhupada suddenly say that he is
going to make ritviks for after he departs, oop diksha gurus who are not
yet trained, oop the training is not complete, oop but are not fit for
sannyasa, oop who will deviate and have to be replaced, oop but are diksha
gurus anyways because "that is the tradition," .... bogus unqualified
gurus? And this was "his last order." This makes no sense. Where is this
order to become guru -- right now? It is an illusion. Thanks pd
======================
3) Challenges, Criticisms, Divisions and Cohesions
BY: KAPILA MONET ...and even some Zulu wisdom.
Dear Rocana Prabhu, I was looking forward to the response you would have
for my Defense of a Travelling Preacher. First of all, I must state that I
enjoy and appreciate the open, and un-censored space that you provide for
discussion. I have also respected the intellect with which you apply
yourself, and indeed, the message you are representing. I just happened to
disagree with what your position and thoughts were in this instance.
What I fear most is the continued disintegration of the last remnants of
this movement. You might ask what I mean by movement. I mean those
following Srila Prabhupada's instructions as part of the mission he left
them, and their children. For the sake of further clarification, I believe
that those who represent Srila Prabhupada's mission do so through their
example, and that such a representation is not "institutional." In this
sense I am neutral to all parties, and seek to learn from my many fathers
and mothers (yourself included) while keeping my original Srila Prabhupada
Bhagavad Gita and my Vedabase handy.
[PADA: Wow! You seem to have gone around in a big circle here. There is a
"movement" that we must preserve, but it is not the institution of ISKCON.
What "movement" are we preserving then? You forget to mention. And since
the current leaders of ISKCON are for the most part the same exact leaders
of "the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophile messiah's
regime," is that "ISKCON"? What is your idea of ISKCON?
And if you are "neutral to all parties," then are you not agreeing that we
(the dissenters) are also part of (greater) "ISKCON," because "ISKCON"
would actually comprise ALL of the devotees of Srila Prabhupada. And if we
can agree to that, then the first question we would ask you is, "How is
Indradyumna's (bogus GBC gurus) party neutral, since his party has kicked
out most of us devotees of Srila Prabhupada from ISKCON, because we refused
to worship Indradyumna's homosexual pedophiles messiah's cult"? Why is
worship of Srila Prabhupada forbidden by folks like Indradyumna swami, and
instead he has promoted his process of worship of all kinds of deviants,
including his former best pals like Bhagavan "the sun king." Where is the
neutrality?
Indeed Indradyumna's party has attacked, vilified, harassed, banished,
beaten and shot and in sum driven out of ISKCON almost all of us worshipers
of the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada, so -- how is he "neutral"? You say
you are neutral, fine, but your pal Mr. Indradyumna swami is clearly not
neutral, instead he treats the worshipers of Srila Prabhupada like evil
deviants. In sum, if you are defending Indradyumna then you are not neutral
because he supports the policy of driving the disciples of Srila Prabhupada
out of ISKCON and maintaining the deviant worship of the founder fathers of
pedophile pooja; and / or pedophiles; and / or the people "voted in as
guru" by the pedophile guru regime. Apart from being "not neutral" this is
anti-children.
In short Indradyumna swami has been pals with the bogus homosexual and
pedophile gurus sabha and their goonda henchmen -- all along. The good news
here is that you want to read the original Bhagavad Gita, the idea we
forwarded all along, whereas Indradyumna has never come forward to defend
Srila Prabhupada's original books either? Indeed Indradyumna has supported
the people (like Jayadvaita swami aka Jay Israel) who have done a complete
hatchet job -- changing -- the original Bhagavad Gita. Indradyumna is not
neutral, he has not helped us with these "changed books" either, so if you
are his associate, you lose your neutral qualities.]
*** KM: Let me summarise simply:
A) You believe that Indradyumna Swami is jointly responsible for the mess
the movement is in.
[PADA: Of course Indradymna swami is "responsible" for the mess that ISKCON
is in, since he is a pillar of the deviant guru cult and he has supported
"the enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophile messiah's
regime" all along, and he still does. He is a long time "leader" who has
steered the ship of ISKCON onto the rocks, to the peril of its passengers.
If any ordinary mundane karmi man had presided over a regime that molested
thousands of children, he would resign in shame. These people are shameless.]
B) You believe that his diary is a self-aggrandising propaganda piece that
does not do a good job of preaching and in fact is misleading.
[PADA: And NOTICE!, nowhere in Indradyumna's extensive diary writing do we
find that he states that the molester messiah's project is bogus, rather he
states that those of us who protested his molester messiahs project are
STILL the bad guys. He is re-victimizing the victims, they are to blame for
their being mistreated by his party. "I am sorry for running over you with
my giant Cadillac, but what aggravates me is that you put a dent in my nice
bumper and got blood all over my nice new white-wall tires." Where is the
mercy here, or even slightest symptom of sentient life?]
C) You have experienced the term Aparadh being used by leaders to hide
horrific misdeeds as they destroyed Srila Prabhupada's movement.
[PADA: Correct, Indradyumna hid the crimes of ISKCON all along and he
helped shout down those of us who protested the crimes, and he is still
protecting and defending the very same people who created all of these
crimes and molesting. He is thus a co-conspirator criminal, by ommission at
the very least.]
D) I believe that any preaching of the Holy Name is a positive and deserves
encouragement, even while the preacher can be corrected in other areas.
[PADA: OK, so why is Indradyumna's party kicking out thousands of preachers?]
E) I believe that the Diary of a traveling preacher helps to spread the
holy name and should be encouraged although it is not the Bhagavad Gita and
Indradyumna Swami is not Srila Prabhupada.
F) I believe that exaggerated criticism of positive actions diminishes the
power of legitimate criticism of negative actions.
Therefore in writing my post:
A) I wanted clarification as to why you believed Indradyumna Swami was
jointly responsible for the mess the movement is in. (You have provided
more clarification.)
B) I wanted to defend my experience of his diary since I perceive it to be
a positive in terms of preaching. (I still think it is a positive but I can
understand your criticisms more clearly.)
C) I wanted to draw a clear distinction between what I perceive to be
strong arguments against the many real, horrible, and negative actions of
the leaders of the movement, and what I perceive to be criticisms of a
positive action.
I grew up in this movement. I am well aware of the way that many people
have hidden behind the term Aparadh to disguise and hide their horrific
misdeeds. That does not mean that it does not exist. I understand that the
unhealthy worship of Swami's who don't deserve such worship, and the
different ways of hiding their behaviour, is exactly what you are fighting
against.
[PADA: OK here we go, the first problem is that you are saying the deviants
are merely swamis. No, the deviants are saying they are "as good as Jesus,
Haridas thakura and Prahlad." They are claiming to be messiahs, not mere
struggling sannyasis.]
KM: It must be deeply challenging to you personally that while you hold
Indradyumna Swami and Radhanath Swami responsible for what has happened in
the movement, they are heralded throughout the remnants of the GBC's ISKCON
as worthy of worship. The Diary is part of that process, and as such, a
legitimate target of criticism. What I fear most, however, is a continued
process of disintegration and division.
Given that 9 Kuli's recently took initiation from Radhanath Swami and many
are inspired by him and Indradyumna Swami, for instance, and on the other
hand a number of other Kuli's won't come near a temple, while a Kuli was
integral to taking Long Island out of GBC hands, and a number of other
Kuli's are Narayan Maharaj followers, there is the potential for continued
splits of a similar nature to the "divorces" our parental god brothers and
sisters have undertaken.
[PADA: Many of the parents who supported the molester regime now support
the pillar supporters of the molester regime, and their children are the
victims here.]
I do not believe that any Muslim, Christian, Vashnaiva, Iskconite, Srila
Prabhupada disciple, or any splinter of the Gaudiya movement, has a
monopoly on the truth. Nor do I believe that they cannot all at least
approach the truth in some way.
[PADA: We can say that the supporters of "the enforced cult ritualistic
worship of homosexual pedophile messiah's club members" are all bogus, and
destined for a VERY rough ride after death -- being chomped to pieces by
the dogs of Yamaraja, at least that is what shatra says is their fate.]
KM: In terms of preachers travelling alone, I can certainly see the benefit
of such a practice. I actually did not dispute this and of course you have
supported it with examples of Sri Chaitanya and Srila Prabhupada. I merely
pointed out that such paired travel could also come under criticism for
additional expense. The second topic where I felt your argument was
strengthened in rebuttal was in the area of funds for travel versus funds
for temples. I accept your position that the GBC can be measured as a
whole, and that each Swami should be held to account for the entire
movement of which they are in a shared leadership position. I think this is
fair and I suspect this will also be true karmically.
[PADA: Yep, your guru pals have unlimited travel expense money, while there
is no money for their vitcims, you got it. Thanks pd]
Hare Krsna,
Your servant,
Kapila Kuli
[PADA Comment: Credit thas to be given that Rocana is posting some nice
letters and he is exposing many criminal acts orchestrated by some of
ISKCON's bogus guru leaders. However notice that Rocana shuns (censors)
printing any sort of letter from us, the Prabhupadanugas, those of us who
say we need to worship Srila Prabhupada. In other words, Rocana has been
obfuscating the facts and confusing the youth / gurukulis of ISKCON since
1977, and he is still doing that. And as a result of Rocana's propaganda so
many of the youth have gone to take shelter of bogus GBC gurus, the Gaudiya
Matha, or they have simply gone away in frustration.
The only good news is that at least Rocana is consistent, he has argued
since 1977 that we Prabhupadanugas are bogus for our not "working with"
Kundali's bogus "advisors" from the Gaudiya Matha and their idea of
displacing Srila Prabhupada with "a living guru." However, we have
challenged Rocana since 1977 to tell us "what specific orders were given by
His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada for managing after his departure?", and
Rocana has provided odd ball replies such as: "his orders are not clear,
but Kundali knows what is to be done clearly, and that is to follow the
Gaudiya Matha's deviants."
At the same time Rocana says "it is clear" (?) that there is some order for
a so-called "living guru successor to Srila Prabhupada," but he never shows
us where this order was stated? We even challenged Rocana to provide us
with his alleged "evidence" of this so-called order for so-called living
gurus, offering him and anyone else a $108,000 reward. Rocana says he is so
wealthy he does not need any of our reward money, ok he is bluffing and he
cannot offer one shred of evidence to support his proposal, even when we
offer him $108,000 to "put up of shut up." He shut up (was caught bluffing)
that is at least good news.
Nor has Rocana been able to provide us the name of his "current living
guru," apparently he has none, in sum this is more of his bluffing since
1977, there is no so-called living guru for Mr. Rocana. It is all bluff. Of
course in reality we were ORDERED by Prabhupada to REJECT the bogus Gaudiya
Matha's "living guru" ideal. So Rocana is angry that we have not joined
with him in bowing our heads submissively to the Gaudiya Matha's deviant
"living guru lineage" (many of whom have been engaged in abominable
deviations). Rocana has never explained why we are supposed to submit to
the Gaudiya Matha's deviant "living guru project" process when Srila
Prabhupada says their "living guru process" --- is "severe offender,"
"asara" (useless), and much worse. Rocana is simply just as baffled and
clueless when we show him these citations as are the bogus GBC/ Sridhara/
Tripurari/ Narayana/ Gaura Govinda swamis/ Kailiasha Chadra et al., ...
Prabhupada's citations which soundly refute their alleged "living gurus"
project.
Meanwhile, Rocana has sort of agreed with us through the back door by
hi-jacking our titles for Srila Prabhupada such as as "the sampradaya
acharya." Ummm, if Srila Prabhupada is "the acharya" then that means there
is no (other/ living/ current) acharya as Rocana implies exists in his
documents. OK, that PROVES Rocana is basically bluffing when he says he
does not endorse our idea, since he is aligning with us through the back
door promoting Srila Prabhupada as the acharya as are we. In short, there
is no "living guru" available, as Rocana has tried to argue we need to
accept. Rocana has been a big bluffer since 1977. This is unfortunately why
we see that Rocana will print so many articles written by, or praising, all
sorts of bogus gurus and authorities -- all mixed together with -- some
good articles. Rocana is all over the map with his "siddhanta" and he has
no clear idea what is to be done. Unfortunately, Rocana's clueless and
rudderless process has transferred to some of the ISKCON gurukulis, they
are now confused about the situation thanks to compromisers like Rocana.
Thanks pd]
=====================
Travelling Preachers BY: MAHAVIDYA DASA (ACBSP)
... I was a witness to the extravagances of the Zonal Acarya years. The
Rolexes, Kashmir sweaters, etc., etc. First I lived under Jayatirtha das.
After Jayathirtha's falldown into madness, those left had to pick up the
pieces. That experience alone would suffice for one life. But Krishna had
other plans ..... Then came Bhagavan das.
Not just Bhagavan das, but Bhagavan das & company (as in Kirtanananda &
company, or Bhavananda & company). He was the guru. He was the Zonal
Acarya. If you didn't agree with that, well too bad, hit the road, Jack. In
order to maintain his position, he simply doled out perks to his chain of
command. For their loyalty and obedience they were amply rewarded. I
remember one incident that typified his regime.
It was in South Africa ... Bhagavan das was having a meeting with Tamal
Krishna Goswami and others. They decided to go for a swim, and lucky me was
chosen to mind their personal effects. I remember this pile of silk clothes
and very expensive watches, and I mean very expensive. He had been well
named as "the sun king". Of course, all good things come to pass and in the
course of time, I got the boot from South Africa. I had dared to challenge
our new GBC (Giriraja Swami) and some dubious financial practises.
He lied to protect himself (gurus don't make mistakes). So courtesy of
Bhakti Chaitanya Swami and Parthasarati Swami, I was shown the door. On
arrival back in the UK, the full impact of Bhagavan das & company was fully
evident. Bhaktivedanta Manor was being closed down by the government, the
temple was about £1,000,000 in debt (this was in 1988), there were slugs
climbing up the Deity kitchen walls (on the inside), the entire property
was infested with rats, yep, that included the Deity kitchen, and there was
more grass on the roofs than on the lawn.
How do I know? I spent 12 months just cleaning up rubbish and rats. How had
it come to this, I wondered? Where was the Temple President? Collecting for
his jacuzzi? Where was the GBC? Where were all those travelling preachers?
So when I hear about a financial crisis in Germany, If I read about Swamis
buying useless expensive jewelry.... If I hear that our leaders will not
disclose their financial assets .... I wonder.... Just what are our
travelling preachers preaching?
==============
Many Societies and Associations of Pure Devotees
BY: BHAGAVAT DAS (ACBSP)
"There are many societies and associations of pure devotees, and if someone
with just a little faith begins to associate with such societies, his
advancement to pure devotional service is rapid. The influence of a pure
devotee is such that if someone comes to associate with him with a little
faith, one gets the chance of hearing about the Lord from authoritative
scriptures like Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam." NOD Chapter 19
So these are the words of our Srila Prabhupada enshrined in His Original
Unedited Nectar of Devotion from 1970. All Nava Jauvana Prabhu has to do is
find one of the many other societies that Srila Prabhupada is talking about
and associate with them to make advancement. Now of course if one does not
accept the words of Srila Prabhupada and brings in some other statement of
Srila Prabhupada’s to try and nullify this one, then one is just nullifying
his spiritual master's own words. If, however, we accept the words of Srila
Prabhupada AS IT IS then we MUST ACCEPT that there are societies and
associations of pure devotees other than ISKCON and by taking their
association we can make rapid advancement to the level of pure devotional
service.
[PADA: Thanks as always Bhagavata dasa. Yes, the society of the GBC/
Sridhara/ Narayana/ Tripurari/ Gaura Govinda et al. namely "the enforced
cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophilee regime," is not a society
of pure dvotees, as you say there are any of us who worship a real pure
devotee, Srila Prabhupada, thanks for the advert! ys pd]
=============