PADA is available all the time at: http://blog.myspace.com/52199499. PADA
news is an information service for the devotees of ISKCON. We do not always
endorse all the letters we get from others. Nor can we independently verify
each and every statement found in letters to PADA. And sometimes -- we
write spoof for comic relief. Let us know if you do not wish to receive
this news letter. Thanks Puranjana dasa 707-477-4102
=======================
HARI SAURI in plot to stop devotees from coming to Vrindavana in 1977
1) HARIVILAS AND ARCANA ARMENII (Tossing Prabhupada under the bus).
2) Many Are Qualified to Initiate by Gaursundar das (Denver, Colo.)
3) DIVINE MERCY, SACRED TRADITION, AND IMITATION by Kailasha Chandra pt 1.
=========================
* Star TV show "Poison case" DVD are available now! Please contact b-i-f.com
* PADA's new hippity hoppity song "Milky Way" is on
myspace.com/trancelooper. Hope ya like it!
* Is the BBT disbanding so they will not have to honor the licence to print
original books?
* Tripurari's son wrote us a nice letter. He is a cool guy and I hope more
of you will write and encourage him: Bhakti Beaudry/ PSVP D-Gym 108M/ POB
8504 Coalinga, CA 93210. PLEASE SEND HIM A STAMP if you want a reply.
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zici1uo6juw (Kirtan at Chinese New Year)
* http://groups.myspace.com/KrishnaKatha (Lakshmi Priya devi dasi)
* Please visit Prabhupadanugas' Press at http://www.prabhupadanugaspress. com/
* Here is your chance to call Svavasa's home phone, and tell him his
buggery guru lineage is bogus: (310) 204-5635. Heee Heee.
* POISON CASE VIDEO: http://www.krishnatube.com/
* Way Cool Indian dancers:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8712184842607043296&pr=goog-sl
* Tripurari's son photo:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2007/02/12/MNGT0O34OO1.DTL&o=1
* (New) harekrishnatemple.com
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YucAG06TLLc
* Govindam http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9foQOoekzQ (song by Prapanam dasa)
* Prabhupada's letters: http://sangalog.blogspot.com/
* http://www.iskconbangalore.org/ (Food Distribution In India etc.)
A Few Devotee Contacts (please let us know if you want to be added, changed
or deleted):
01. California, Berkeley: ccr2k@yahoo.com (Gadhadhara dasa)
02. California, Lancaster: krishnaislife@yahoo.com (Mahatma dasa)
03. California, Los Angeles: zakheim@earthlink.net (Naranarayan dasa)
04. California, Monterey: james_rocanella@yahoo.com (Jagganatha Swami dasa)
05. California, San Francisco: pada@neteze.com (PADA)
06. Florida, Alachua: naveen.khurana@att.net (Naveen Krishna dasa)
07. Florida, Alachua: Nalinikant@aol.com (Nalinikantha)
08. Florida, Tampa: Gita434@aol.com
09. Mississippi: Carriere (near New Talavan - Mahasrnga_dasa@yahoo.com)
10. New York, Buffalo: mvvd@yahoo.com (Mahavegavati dd)
11. New York (Angelica, Upstate Near Buffalo) gadaidasa@yahoo.com (Gadai Dasa)
12. New York, Long Island: iskcontoday.com (Nimai Pandit dasa)
13. New York City: LFELDA@aol.com (Locananda dasa)
14. North Carolina - Prabhupada Village, Sandy Ridge (336) 593-8108
festivalofindia.org (Madhua dasa)
15. Tennesee: pss108@juno.com (Kapindra swami)
16. Texas (Dallas): gordhan_goyani@yahoo.com (Gadhadhara dasa)
17. Texas (San Antonio): info@iskconsanantonio.com
18. Washington, Seattle, dasdasdas@aol.com 360-856-5411 (Dhamaghosa dasa)
19. West Virginia: kamsahanta@hotmail.com (Kamsahanta dasa)
20. Canada, Montreal: n_allard@videotron.ca
21. Canada, Montreal: www.radhadamodara.net
22. Canada: http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/
23. Canada, Toronto: hasti90@hotmail.com (Hasti Gopal dasa)
24. Canada, Vancouver area: aryaandvijeta@yahoo.com,
25. England, Manchester: mahesh_agtsp@yahoo.co.uk (Mahesha raja dasa)
26. Germany: Biker@mootoo.de
27. India, Bangalore: manjunath36@iskconbangalore.org
28. Australia: sakshi@aapt.net.au. (Shaksi Gopal dasa)
29. Australia: tulsi@planet1.info (Mandapa dasa)
30. South America: pariksit2000@yahoo.com
31. Trinidad: sudar@tstt.net.tt (Sudarsan dasa)
32. Gita Distribution Plans: recordguymatthew@hotmail.com
========================
HARI SAURI in plot to stop devotees from coming to Vrindavana in 1977: Hari
Sauri: In Delhi I purchased some items for Srila Prahbupada, a water
heater, a mosquito net, and some powder for his dry bath. Also I informed
Adi Keshava that only the GBC should come to see Srila Prabhupada at
present. Tamal Krishna had previously informed the USA men that Srila
Prahbupada's health was very bad and that whoever wanted should come. Then
later we deciced that if so many people came there would be no programme.
Then they may stay around for weeks and they may not even be able to see
Srila Prabhupada either. I phoned him to tell him only the sannyasis and
GBC should come. The call was just in time! Hundreds of men were preparing
to come.
========================
1) HARIVILAS AND ARCANA ARMENII (Tossing Srila Prabhupada under the bus).
* Arcana Armenii (http://profile.myspace.com/163638661) translates as: "I
worship Armenia" (part of Harivilas dasa's "Sons of Armenia"). Oh boy! This
poor (devotee?) fellow has tried to debate PADA with a veritable onslaught
of -- about five thousand -- messages per day. He thinks that by flooding
PADA with about one hundred messages per hour he will overwhelm us with
sheer volume of messages. This is sort of called "shouting someone down."
Oddly, some people become more obsessed with Armenia and / or PADA than
they are obsessed with Krishna. "I worship Armenia" and this is what ISKCON
is devolving to under the direction of folks like Harivilas and his
Armenian brotherhood pals like AA? Of course lets not forget that other big
leaders are inviting one other to their Bar Mitvahs, keeping their "former
karmi culture" going on -- while they fleece ISKCON.
AA flies off into so many topics, actually he is all over the map on every
topic you can think of. Yet all of his topics are either by innunendo or
directly, critical of Srila Prabhupada. Another weak attempt to frighten us
by overwhelming us with a number of topics. Nope, we always look for the
root issues. For example here is a root issue: AA says he is friends with
Harivilas, his fellow "Armenian Brotherhood member." Yet the first problem
is, why are we worshipping (arcana) the country of Armenia? Harivilas has
also started his own web site with some crude "Armenian proverbs" (see
below) and so on. Why are these fellows still absorbed in their bodily
places of birth? That is the first problem then, they are identifying with
their place of birth which is -- the modes of ignorance. Is this what the
bogus GBC leaders are heading towards: "I, me, mine, my zone, my disciples,
my body, my place of birth, my culture, my society etc." Oh me oh my!
It is most surprising to PADA that a person like "Armenian Brotherhood"
advocate AA can go onto a "Hare Krishna" discussion group
(http://groups.myspace.com/harekrishna) and say it is a good thing that
Srila Prabhupada was poisoned "because he deserved it" and no one except
myself even tries to combat this fellow. Suppose someone came onto a
Christian group and said, "Jesus was crucified, goody, he got what he
desrved." It seems like it is often open season to criticize Srila
Prahbupada and when we defend him, we are the bad guys. I hope some of you
will go onto that group and try to defend Srila Prabhupada from time to
time. And the moderator of that group does not even know that this is a bad
thing, he should not allow a person to post such gloating over the
assassination of a pure devotee. At the same time this is most revealing,
the GBC guru-ophiles are now finally agreeing Srila Prabhupada was
poisoned, except now they say -- he desrved it. They are laughing just as
they were laughing outside his room in 1977.
Truly this is amazing, this AA fellow completely insults and assaults Srila
Prabhupada, there are 700 members to the myspace Hare Krishna group, and no
one defends Srila Prabhupada at all. As a matter of fact many write a
complaint to the moderator of that site saying PADA should be banned, and
apparently we have been. The only good news is that we would rather be in
the group that understands we cannot say such things about pure devotees --
than the mass of acquiescing / silence means acceptance/ de facto
supporters. The other good news is that the moderator Eric Simmons did
allow us to post there for about a year, so at least those who wanted to
know will know. The point of contention is gradually coming down to a
simple single issue, Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. And now that they
cannot defeat that point, they are saying goody, he deserved to be poisoned
because he started a criminal operation -- and the people giving that
argument are the criminals themselves. Amazing to see this argument,
amazing to see the acquiescing, and more amazing is the call to have is
banned for not agreeing.
It is also amazing that some of the Gaudiya Matha sympathizers like AA says
that Srila Prabhupada had to "apologize" to the Gaudiya Matha. The main
issues that they disagreed upon were: (A) Their false gurus, which Srila
Prahupada did not endorse and (B) the fact that Srila Prabhupada gave women
a position in ISKCON. Prior to Srila Prabhupada, the Gaudiya Matha had
forbid women from: living in temples, conducting deity worship, and serving
Krishna along with the men. And now -- indeed because of Srila Prabhupada
-- women were singing in kirtans in temples, melas and programs made by
Srila Prabhupada by the thousands, or hundreds of thousands. Now Srila
Prabhupada has to apologize for opening the doors to women? This begs the
question, a some of the bogus GBC's leaders women haters as many have
suspected? Needless to say, AA attacks the Prabhupada worshippers "the
ritviks," because anyone who does not worship Harivilas' child molester
guru lineage is very evil! Prabhupada should apologize for preaching, for
his own being murdered, etc. Amazing!
Thus in 1970 some of the Gaudiya Matha leaders went to the media to
complain that Srila Prabhupada was giving initiations to women, was
allowing women to live in the temples, and he was is short: giving women
status. So it is not surprising that AA objects to giving women equal
rights since he wants Srila Prabhupada to apologize for updating women's
role. Thus we are not surprised that some of the bogus GBC, as well as
Sridhara, Narayana, Gaura Govinda, Tripurari, BV and BP Puri swamis et al.
are always commenting that "Srila Prahbupada has to apologize to the
Gaudiya Matha." We have to remove the women and worship their false messiahs?
Of course at the same time yet another Armenian devotee tells PADA that
Harivilas is criminally responsible for things like murders and child
molesting in ISKCON because Harivilas has been a key supporter of that
regime. Thus, not many other ACTUAL Armenians agree with these fellows.
Next Arcana Armenii ("I worship Armenia ki jaya sir"!) tells us that Srila
Prabhupada's idea that women are to be trained in domestic life, get
married, and be protected by a man, is -- exploiting women. Well sorry sir,
but even the women at the time of Krishna (such as the gopis) were trained
in domestic life. And then they were married and protected by a man. That
is the system created by God Himself.
It seems that "The Brothers Of Armenia" are saying Krishna has "made a
mistake" by His NOT creating gopis (!) -- who smoke cigars, wear
construction hard hats, and drive big huge cement trucks -- like some of
the women here in San Francisco are doing. Yep Krishna made a huge mistake
here! Why hasn't Krishna made His OWN women into cement truck drivers?
Hmmm! Oh, how terrible, Krishna is tying them down to churning butter! Then
again with so many mothers out there "working 16 hours a day" in modern
life, this is creating "broken families" with no one at home to monitor
their kids. And this is creating a sub-class of "out of control super
violent young criminals" according to a recent police analyses: younger and
younger people are getting involved in violent and vicious crimes --
because the father and mother are out there working. Is this the "better
ideal" of the Armenian brotherhood? No parents at all!
It gets worse. These fellows apparently think Krishna's system is bad and
we should follow the Armenain sytem of "treatment of women." Many of the
girls and women LIVING TODAY in Armenia are being forced into prostitution
because there is no other work for them. This is detailed in internet
articles about Armenia's exploiting of girls and women. These poor women
have to engage in prostitution just to get a few pieces of daily bread. We
"worship" (arcana) that system? This the the "glorious culture" we need to
emulate and expand (arcanam)? Yes! AA says we "worship" (arcana) the system
of large scale (de facto government endorsed) prostitution? Why is this a
superior system to getting women married and have them protected by a man?
Large scale prostitution is -- better -- than marriage?
And now it seems members of the government of Armenia are encouraging
prostitution by paying them bribes to have sex with their political
opponents to create scandals and so on. Indeed we worship (arcana) a
government state that orchestrates mass prostitution. Why? It gets worse,
because then again Armenia still has open and public animal sacrifices.
(From "Life in Armenia): "I witnessed several animals being sacrificed at
both churches and in one case a rooster was screaming for five minutes
while they were slowly sawing through his neck. Paritioners were smiling
with animal blood smeared on their foreheads. Supposedly our church
denounces this pagan practice, but for some reason they still allow it to
happen on a continuous basis on church grounds. Considering that our
country openly discriminates against cults such as Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm
surprised they condone such an anti-Christian tradition." We arcana /
worship this behavior!
Other articles indicate these animal sacrifices are not isolated and remote
but rituals that many of the citizens partake in: "After respect is paid to
the ancestors, national dances have been danced and songs have been sung,
people taste matagh (animal sacrifice) with a promise to come here the next
year." So why are we "worshipping Armenia" when it encourages prostitution
and animal slaughter? This seems to be a new problem emerging from
corporate ISKCON's biggest bogus GBC leaders like Harivilas, they are going
back to their bodily identification roots from before they were devotees,
even if that is Armenia. And then they are trying to glorify / incorporate
their former (karmi) lives into Krishna consciousness, with disasterous
results. Let us not forget that Armenia is also criticized for being "a
police state." Oh, all right then, that is what we bogus GBC's worship, we
are making ISKCON into a police state too! Writing whack "proverbs" is the
job of Satsvarupa isn't it?
Yet, even the lowest of Armenian prostitutes are way more advanced than
Harivilas. The lowliest prostitute knows that "people who are as good as
Jesus" (as Harivilas' bogus GBC "gurus" advertise themselves in their
documents) are NOT EVER "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and
children." Even the Armenian prostitutes know that one cannot attack Jesus
by saying Jesus and / or his "successor / equals" are "engaged in illicit
sex with MEN, women and CHILDREN"! Why does Harivilas hate Jesus? So yes,
as a matter of fact, even the Armenian prostitutes and animal sacrificing
peoples are vastly superior to Harivilas. They know that messiahs are not
ever "engaged in illicit sex, taking drugs, orchestrating crimes" and so
on. Why are the prostitutes vastly more learned than Harivilas? So this is
interesting "The Armenian Brotherhood" of AA and Harivilas are insulting
Jesus, insulting messiahs, and insulting the intelligence of the Armenian
prostitutes -- all at once.
They are insulting the poor Armenian prostitutes by discrediting their BONA
FIDE realization that pure devotees are not deviants. The prostitutes would
never agree that messiahs are engaged in illicit sex, since they have
respect for the messiahs. And yes it even gets worse. AA says that Srila
Prabhupada deserved to get poisoned because so many crimes evolved in
ISKCON. So now they are blaming Srila Prabhupada for the ISKCON crimes,
read: tossing Srila Prabhupada under the bus to save Harivilas from his
cheerleading / acquiescing with the criminals. Nope! Folks like Harivilas
are to blame for the crimes because he has supported the criminally bogus
GBC guru system. Harivilas has orchestrated placing on Krishna's altars the
photos of his messiahs, CRIMINALS and persons "engaged in illicit sex with
men, women and children," and he has forced the children of ISKCON to
worship his abomination false messiahs.
Srila Prabhupada was trying to reign in these criminals; and then he was
eliminated (poisoned) by these criminals. After that crime, then Harivilas
team began to FORCE ISKCON's CHILDREN to worship his bogus messiahs
(criminals). Harivilas forces children to worship these criminals, then a
huge crime wave ensures because of Harivilas: NOT because of Srila
Prabhupada! Harivilas is to blame for Harivilas' own actions of forcing
children to worship his criminals as "Jesus like messiahs"? Now Srila
Prabhupada is the criminal, and he deserves to be punished because of
Harivilas' criminal implication in the bogus regime. Notice, now
Harivilas's Armenian brotherhood is trying to blame the messiah for their
own criminal complicity, at least criminal neglect, of the crimes in ISKCON.
As one ex-gurukuli says of all this, Harivilas and Arcana Armenii would be
big fat zeros without Srila Prabhupada, no one would have even ever heard
of these fellows. They are exploiting Srila Prabhupada to get some cheap
glory and position for themselves.
Sorry, the leaders like Harivilas are one hundred percent responsible for
the crimes that have been going on in ISKCON. Need we note that Harivilas'
goons recently attacked a woman in the Berkeley temple because she does not
worship Harivilas' pedophile guru lineages? Need we note that Harivilas'
goons say "We'd like to kill you," to guests like us? Need we note that
anyone who says that child molesters are not gurus and messiahs are not
welcomed at Harivilas' temples? Need we note that Harivilas refuses to sign
a paper stating that people like Jesus are not engaged in illicit sex? Need
we note that Harivilas has been trying to get voted in as a guru by the
same people who are supporters of illicit sex messiahs? Need we note that
Harivilas has harassed the Prabhupadanugas for the past 25 years?
And we could go on here for another five pages, but you get the point:
Harivilas is a co-conspirator in the crimes of ISKCON, and AA is his slave.
The only good news is that at least the Harivilas / AA team are now
apparently admitting that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, that is actually
some progress. Yet if that is the case, how did the poisoners become the
next messiahs -- if not by support from fools like Harivilas? And has not
Harivilas materially benefitted, along with his co-hijackers? Indeed many
say they all profited by their role in helping kick out the devotees of
Prabhupada, and cashing in by now duping the Hindus to come and give them
donations in the false guru brotherhood. And now, Srila Prabhupada is the
criminal because their party killed him and then fleeced his pockets?
Amazing audacity. Thanks pd
Wisdom from the Son of Armenia... GBC Harivilasa das BY: TULSIANANDA DASA
"My name is Harry (Hampartzoum) Terhanian. What has prompted me to publish
this collection of Armenian proverbs is to create a web gathering of
Armenians and other interested persons. As the Armenians are spread all
over the world, there is a need to gather in a forum to live, share, and
evolve our culture. Culture is something that is handed from generation to
generation."
What you have just read is the introduction to Iskcon GBC Harivilas's
personal web page, HarryTerhanian.com. Harivilasa has compiled no less than
324 Armenian proverbs on 23 webpages. No wonder Iskcon Vancouver is going
to hell in a handbasket. Here's a sample of what GBC Harivilas believes to
be "enlightenment":
"He is sitting on an ass looking for an ass" -- the story of Hodja, who
smuggled donkeys. ...and my personal favorite: "They piss in the same hole
(or pot)." This proverb is used to point out how much two people are in
agreement always." I stumbled upon Harivilas's website several months ago
while researching an extensive complaint I will be forwarding to Revenue
Canada (Canada's IRS). In my complaint, I will be requesting a forensic
audit of Iskcon Vancouver's books, minutes and governing documents, and
inquiring into the legalities concerning Harivilas's recent and highly
questionable activities of disbanding the Temple Board, claiming to be the
Temple President while living in another country, and having the local
members sign some sort of mysterious transfer of powers, most likely under
duress. All of these actions would appear to contravene Canada's Charity
Tax Law.
"Has the charity made any changes to its governing documents during the
fiscal period (e.g., letters patent, articles of incorporation,
constitution, trust, or by-laws)? (If yes, see the guide.)" This is
question A1 under Section A, Identification of the Registered Charity
Information Return. Furthermore the Act says: "Check Yes" if there have
been changes to the registered charity's governing documents during the
fiscal period. If so, you must send us an official copy of the amended
governing documents. The amended governing documents should be mailed in a
separate envelope from the information return to avoid a delay in processing."
It will be interesting to see how Temple Treasurer Narada Muni das answers
this question when filing the 2006 return for Iskcon Vancouver. It will
also be nice to know how many of New Gokula's residents have been allowed
to retain their rent free apartments and other perks in exchange for their
silence on this matter.
[PADA: Please forward any other legal discrepancies of Harivilas to PADA.
thanks PD]
============================
2) Many Are Qualified to Initiate by Gaursundar das (Denver, Colo.) March 07
ISKCON seems to operate within the realms of inequality. As a devotee since
1979, I find it disconcerting that the GBC is going against guru, shastra
and sadhu concerning recognition as a leader in Srila Prabhupada's
movement. Who came up with the rule that you had to be voted into the
sannyasa ashram? This is between the guru and his or her disciple. Such a
rule is directly against shastra.
For the sincere disciples of Srila Prabhupada, I salute you, but why are
only direct initiates of Srila Prabhupada allowed to initiate devotees into
spiritual life? There are certainly many others in the movement who possess
the necessary qualifications. In the shastras there are many examples of a
guru telling disciples to go out and initiate people as Srila Prabhupada
instructed his direct initiates to do. Today's gurus should be telling
their qualified disciples to do the same. If this is not done then ISKCON
will certainly stagnate.
What we are doing is sending a message to everyone who joins that you
cannot ever advance spiritually enough to help spread the movement until
the direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada have all gone back to Godhead.
Unfortunately, some direct initiates may find themselves in a different
situation than they expect; perhaps they will have to be born back into
this movement and feel left out for their whole lifetime. Hopefully, they
will not get molested by demon-like scum that claim to be disciples of
Srila Prabhupada but are simply disciples of the lower modes of ignorance
and darkness.
Think about it; wake up. This movement is not about spreading power, money
and fame.
=========================
3) DIVINE MERCY, SACRED TRADITION, AND IMITATION
by Kailasa Candra dasa
"(One should) not try to imitate the powerful but simply follow their
instructions; nor should one try to occupy their posts without
qualification." Bhagavad-gita 3.24, purport. A shiksha-guru is a spiritual
master, a pure devotee.
[PADA: Totally bogus idea -- right out of the gate. Srila Prabhupada wanted
every one of his devotees to preach (give shiksha) including the temple pot
washer. Srila Prabhupada never said that one has to be "a pure devotee" to
wash pots, or to preach. Srila Prabhupada's whole idea is that all of his
devotees, even the smallest servants -- should "preach on his behalf." For
example Srila Prabhupada said that the little girl "Saraswati" was "doing
good preaching" when she was only five years old. There is no indication
that a devotee has to be pure -- before he can preach. Need we say that
Kailasha, Rocana, Kundali, the bogus GBC gurus, as well as Sridhara,
Narayana, Gaura Govinda, BV and BP Puri, Tripurari et al. swamis, they all
mis-cite Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada also wrote that the Governing Body should act as his
shiksha representatives (layman / preacher class of devotees) and he would
be the diksha guru (messiah class of devotee). Now Kailasha is trying to
once again MERGE the Governing Body or the layman / preachers and lump in
all of them as "pure devotees." So he is promoting the very imitation he
claims to oppose. Nor is there any "tradition" where Krishna's devotees are
required to remain silent -- until -- they become pure. All this is
mis-citing of Srila Prabhupada.]
** KD: The mercy of the Supreme Lord upon his pure devotees is unlimited.
The shiksha-guru is self-realized, and satisfaction of the self-realized
spiritual master is the secret to advancement in transcendental life.
Indeed, transcendental life begins when one accepts instruction and
eventually initiation from a bona fide pure devotee.
[PADA: No, Srila Prabhupada says his followers are the neophyte devotees,
but they can act as shiksha gurus and he (Srila Prabhupada) is the advanced
diksha guru. Now Kailasha is contridicting Srila Prabhupada by saying his
followers are all pure shiksha gurus. No, Srila Prabhupada never said his
followers are pure, rather he said they are "puppy brains."]
** KD: The pure devotee rescues his student or disciple by showing him how
to get free from the material concept of life. This is done by various
instructions, and the spiritual master who gives such instruction is known
as the shiksha-guru.
[PADA: Again, any devotee can give general instructions (shiksha). This is
not limited to the pure. Many people were and still are preaching on behalf
of Jesus, so he has the biggest relgion in the world. None of these
preachers are pure, nor are they expected to be pure? They are acting as
his agents. Srila Prabhupada wanted the same thing, let everyone of my
followers preach on my behalf.]
** KD: Sometimes, the shiksha-guru goes on to become diksha-guru, the
initiating spiritual master. The diksha-guru also continues to give
shiksha, or instruction, to his initiated disciple. Whether a pure devotee
holds the post of diksha-guru or shiksha-guru, the guru must be liberated.
A disciple can only be rescued from the clutches of material nature by a
pure devotee, because such a spiritual master is free from the influence of
the modes of material nature.
[PADA: Fine, that means the (shiksha) preacher gives people Srila
Prabhupada (via his books). So new people are connected to a pure devotee.
Again Kailasha makes it sound like the preacher is not presenting a pure
devotee, no the preacher is giving people a pure devotee to worship.]
** KD: The disciple surrenders to his guru in order to attain his divine
mercy. Only his liberated guru, whether he is a diksha-guru or a
shiksha-guru, can bestow such divine mercy, because he himself receives
unlimited mercy from the Supreme Lord. This is the sacred tradition of
disciplic succession.
[PADA: The "tradition" is that anyone can preach on behalf of the pure, the
preacher himself is not required to be pure. The tradition is also that: if
the guru says he wants his movement to be conducted by a managerial body,
then you have to follow that order, that is the tradition. Kailasha,
Rocana, Kundali, the bogus GBC gurus, as well as Sridhara, Narayana, Gaura
Govinda, BV and BP Puri, Tripurari et al. swamis, they all say that we
cannot follow the orders of Srila Prabhupada, so they are the ones breaking
the tradition.]
** KD: Srila Prabhupada showed us that initiation was a vital part of this
sacred tradition. He also showed us that spiritual instruction is a vital
part of this sacred tradition. He was our diksha-guru, and he was our
shiksha-guru, as well. We cannot manufacture a new tradition.
[PADA: If Srila Prabhupada "was" Kailaisha's guru, then Srila Prabhupada is
no longer his guru. Since Srila Prabhupada is no longer the guru of
Kailasha "he was my guru -- but no longer is," that means Kailasha has no
guru at all. So this is interesting, Kailiasha says that everyone must have
a living guru, but he does not have any living guru at all. He is bogus by
his own calculation. Then again Kailasha, Rocana, Kundali, the bogus GBC
gurus, as well as Sridhara, Narayana, Gaura Govinda, BV and BP Puri,
Tripurari et al. swamis, they all say that they need a living guru, but
they have none?]
** KD: "One has to follow in the footsteps of previous authorities in the
line of disciplic succession . . . No one can manufacture a religious
principle by imperfect speculation." Bhagavad-gita, 4.16, purport.
[PADA: Right, and to say that the temple pot washer preacher has to be pure
before he can preach to others is a pure concoction from Kailasha.]
** KD: Imitation is different from following in the footsteps of a
liberated acharya. Imitation of mahabhagavat produces cataclysmic results,
both long-term and short-term. Imitation of shiksha-guru will also not help
us. It will not satisfy Srila Prabhupada whatsoever, and success cannot be
achieved in that way.
[PADA: Agreed. No one is supposed to preach until they are pure, yet
Kailasha is preaching. Thus he is claiming to pure, and is guilty of the
imitation he claims to oppose.]
** KD: ... In those cases and at those times, Lord Krishna has already
incarnated in the form of the Book Bhagavat. So He has created a
contingency, in advance, to provide solace to His devotees. The devotees
associate with Him via the Book Bhagavat. At that time, they associate with
Srila Prabhupada, as shiksha-guru, through his purports to the Book
Bhagavat. Prabhupada’s association and guidance as shiksha-guru is also
obtained through his lectures, walks, room conversations, and/or letters.
[PADA: Now Kailasha is giving the same argument as us, and / or the ritviks?]
** KD: In the last few years, a new perspective or proposal has arisen.
This new shiksha theory postulates that, after his disappearance, Srila
Prabhupada actually wanted his disciples to cooperatively accept an
unconventional and non-traditional organizational model of disciplic
succession.
[PADA: Kailasha now contradicts himself and Srila Prabhupada. Kailasha says
that the devotees were ordered by Srila Prabhupada to give out his books
and act as shiksha gurus, simultaneously he says this is wrong and
"non-traditional." The order of guru is not "in or out" of the tradition,
it is the same as an order from Krishna -- but now it is bogus? Srila
Prabhupada is not following the Vedas? No, it is Kailasha who is disobeying
his guru. Yes, distribution of a guru's books is not always found, but what
difference does that make since that is the order of guru?]
** KD: In essence, this perspective claims that Prabhupada, during his
physical presence with the devotees, had already empowered localized and
regional shiksha-gurus, some of whom acted as rittvik-acharyas.
[PADA: Kailasha says that the shiksha guru is pure and that Srila
Prabhupada had named (Read: appointed) or "already empowered" some pure
(shiksha) devotees. Kailasha is now giving us the "bogus appointment
concoction": some "pure" persons were already named, appointed or
"empowered" by Srila Prabhupada. No, there was not any indication that
there were any "empowered pure devotee shiksha gurus." This is a lie. Oddly
Kailash contradicts other documents he has written wherein he says, there
are no named, appointed or empowered pure persons, this is a lie? Kailasha
is arguing with himself. And what was the "order"? It was simply that there
would be temporary managers, agents, not "empowered pure shiksha gurus,"
and that is what all the evidence and legal documents support. What other
order did he give if not this order?]
** According to this view, there should be no initiations until the
emergence of the next mahabhagavat from amongst Prabhupada’s disciples
(1966-1977).
[PADA: Now Kailash is implying that we should not wait for the next
maha-bhagavata, we should start diksha initiations from imitation pure
devotees. No, we have to "wait" for another maha-bhagavata if he is to give
diksha, no one else is qualified for that post. Now Kailasha implies, why
wait, start giving bogus diksha right now from unqualified persons. OK this
is what Kailasha, Rocana, Kundali, the bogus GBC gurus, as well as
Sridhara, Narayana, Gaura Govinda, BV and BP Puri, Tripurari et al. swamis
all say.]
** KD: This vision further stipulates that Srila Prabhupada was supposed to
have followed in the footsteps of his spiritual master, asking that we
cooperate and await the next mahabhagavat. He would then guide our mission
as the only initiating spiritual master. The new shiksha theory considers
this paradigm much more digestible than all the attempts or models enacted
since 1978.
[PADA: It is not whether the order is "more digestible" or not. The order
is the order. The order is to form a Governing Body and conduct the society
on his behalf (acting as FALLIBLE and TEMPORARY agents). This is not "a
more digestible paradigm" this is the order and it is also very practical,
the neophytes can preach on behalf of the pure, that is the system since
time immemorial it is not "a new paradigm."]
** KD: This new organizational model is to serve a pragmatic function,
acknowledging the potency of these (so called) previously empowered
shiksha-gurus. They are now supposed to be directly representing the
parampara within an institutional framework.
[PADA: No, the shiksha guru is not "a direct representative of the
parampara (shaksat hari)," he is a (temporary and fallible) agent. Yet when
everyone worships the acharya there is a unified institution since all of
the devotees, the preachers as well as the flock, they all worship the
acharya. So this creates a unified institution, that is correct.]
** KD: Srila Prabhupada was said to have structured his Society so that all
those many shiksha-gurus (allegedly) had been afforded previous worship
relative to their proven track record in recruiting and management. As
such, they should continue to receive their share of due reverence. Srila
Prabhupada’s rittvik-acharyas or proxy initiators were supposedly empowered
shiksha-gurus during his presence, as long as they had not blatantly fallen
down anytime afterwards.
[PADA: The preacher is now "the worshipped guru"? No, he is not worshipped,
he is simply an agent. The priest is not worshipped in any religion, he
only assists and helps others worship the saint. Kailasha thinks the priest
is worshipped, whereas in reality the priest is merely acting as an agent
for the worshipped. Yet now we see a touch of reality, they are agents "as
long as they are not blatantly fallen." That means they are not pure, they
are not worshipped, they are merely administrators on behalf of the pure.]
** KD: According to the new shiksha theory, today’s candidates for diksha
are to wait for initiation from the next mahabhagavat, in the interim
receiving shiksha from all the many living shiksha-gurus. The institution’s
rittvik-acharyas allegedly had performed their service as de facto (but not
de jure) shiksha-gurus on behalf of Srila Prabhupada while he was present
amongst us. The temple presidents back then, since they were supposed to be
continually acting as instructors within their temples, performed this
shiksha-guru function even more than the rittviks. While Prabhupada was
here, his Society was supposed to also have shiksha-gurus even within the
rank-and-file of the grassroots. Thus, imagine the all-round protection
provided by a worldwide network of shiksha gurus, which was to have
prevented his movement from degenerating into just another organized
religion. By adopting this unconventional model now, any further
disintegration is supposed to be prevented. This new shiksha theory is said
to be what Prabhupada wanted and still wants.
[PADA: Well yes, to worship the pure devotee is not only "the correct model
for the institution" it is the only method to make spiritual progress for
anyone. What other doocumented method was given by Srila Prabhupada?]
** And, it goes on to say that, at the present time, there are a multitude
of living shiksha-gurus, fully absorbed in dedicated service and ready to
provide assistance to all aspiring uninitiated devotees, guidance to the
ultimate goal. "A shiksha-guru who instructs against the instruction of
spiritual master, he is not a shiksha guru... Sometimes a diksha-guru is
not present always. Therefore, one can take learning, instruction, from an
advanced devotee. That is called the shiksha-guru." Lecture of
Bhagavad-gita Chapter 17, 7/4/74, Honolulu (emphasis added)
... And then, in the spring of 1977, with his body emaciated and his
departure imminent, he enunciated these well-known statements in an
exchange with two of his leading secretaries: "Regular guru, that’s all. He
becomes the disciple of my disciple . . . But on my order." Room
conversation in May, 1977, India (emphasis added/chronology inverted)
[PADA: No order is given for anyone to be guru here? Prabhupada also said
one become guru "when" I give the order, that is not an order -- to start
now. But on my order, that means the order has not been given for anyone to
be a guru. thanks pd]
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