Indian Lady: ... is that spiritual master still guiding after death?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Just like Krsna is guiding us, similarly spiritual master will guide us. (General lectures, 69/09/23)

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when you're not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise...

SRILA PRABHUPADA: Well the questions are answ... answers are there in my books.
(Morning Walk, Los Angeles, 13/5/73)

So utilise whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered. (Letter to Upendra, 7/1/76)

Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered. ( Letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)

If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way. (BTG 13:1-2, December 1977) 

74-11-22 Letter: Bahurupa
In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.

Note: This clearly indicates that Srila Prabhupada's books are understood through their own potency, and that there is therefore no need for a physically present guru to understand the books. Our Srimad Bhagavatam is unique because the verses of the Bhagavatam are directly complemented with the purports of Srila Prabhupada, who is the bonafide maha-bhagavata ; therefore, the book Bhagavata and the person Bhagavata are combined in Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagavatam. Therefore, there is no need for a third party, "the so called current Iskcon links" to (mis)interpret what Srila Prabhupada "really means to say". sic

770517ar.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: So I cannot speak. I am feeling very weak. I was to go to other places like Chandigarh program, but I cancelled the program because the condition of my health is very deteriorating. So I preferred to come to Vrndavana. If death takes place, let it take here. So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor. Whether I am present or not present, it doesn't matter.

73-11-25. Letter: Cidananda
I should be returning to Los Angeles the last week of November and I should be more than happy to see you there. Please always try to remember me by my teachings and we shall always be together. Just like I have written in the first publications of Srimad-Bhagavatam, "THE SPIRITUAL MASTER LIVES FOREVER BY HIS DIVINE INSTRUCTION AND THE DISCIPLE LIVES WITH HIM.", because I have always served my Guru Maharaja and followed His teachings I am now even never separated from Him. Sometimes Maya may come and try to interfere but we must not falter, we must always follow the chalked out path layed down by the great acharya's and in the end you will see.

"I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically, as I am getting personal guidance from my guru maharaja" (Srila Prabhupada to Tamal Krishna, 14 July 1977)

Srila Prabhupada: "So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living."

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-Gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? (Srila Prabhupada, morning walk, Paris 11/6/74)750716pc.sf Conversations

"However, the disciple and spiritual master are never separated because the spiritual master always keeps company with the disciple as long as the disciple follows strictly the instructions of the spiritual master. This is called the association of vani (words). Physical presence is called vapuh. As long as the spiritual master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master." Purport Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.47

"So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavour. Whether I am present or not present it doesn't matter." (Srila Prabhupada, arrival conversation, May 17th, 1977, Vrindavan)

"In my books the philosophy of Krsna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop." (Srila Prabhupda's letter to Brahmarupa Prabhu, November 11th, 1974)

"After 80 years, no one can be expected to live long. My life is almost ended. So you have to carry on, and these books will do everything." (Srila Prabhupada, room conversation, February 18th, 1976)

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when you're not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise...

Srila Prabhupada: Well the questions are answ...answers are there in my books. (morning walk, Los Angeles, 13/5/73)

"So utilize whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Upendra, 7/1/76)

"Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)

Narayana: So those disciples who don't have the opportunity to see you or speak with you...

Srila Prabhupada: That he was speaking, vani and vapuh. Even if you don't see his body, you take his words, vani.

Narayana: But how do they know that they're pleasing you?

Srila Prabhupada: If you actually follow the words of Guru, that means he is pleased. And if you do not follow, how can he be pleased?

Sudama: Not only that, but your mercy is spread everywhere, and if we take advantage, you told us once, then we will feel the result.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

(Srila Prabhupada, room conversation, 21/7/75)

Madhudvisa: Is there any way for a Christian to do without the help of a Spiritual Master. To reach the spiritual sky through believing the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?

Srila Prabhupada: I don't follow.

Tamala Krishna Goswami: Can a Christian in this age, without a Spiritual Master, but by reading the Bible, and following Jesus's words, reach the ...

Srila Prabhupada: When you read the Bible, you follow the Spiritual Master. How can you say without. As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. That means that you are following the Spiritual Master. So where is the opportunity of being without Spiritual Master.

Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living Spiritual Master.

Srila Prabhupada: Spiritual Master is not question of ... Spiritual Master is eternal...so your question is "without Spiritual Master". Without Spiritual Master you cannot be at any stage of your life. You may accept this Spiritual master or that Spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that 'by reading Bible', when you read Bible that means you are following the Spiritual Master  represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. (Morning Walk, Seattle, 2/10/68)

"Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

"But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

"So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association." (Srila Prabhupada, lecture on SB, 68/08/18)

"Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence." (Srila Prabhupada, CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)

"Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

"I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja." (Srila Prabhupada, room conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

"It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life." (Srila Prabhupada, SB 3.31.48. purport)

"I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent." (Srila Prabhuapda, letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.

Srila Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important. (Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)

"You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you, and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment, although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)

"As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krsna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krsna prasadam etc., then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Caitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Bala Krsna, 30/6/74)

"'Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute all spiritual duties in the matter of Krsna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Subala, 29/9/67)

Devotee: ...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks "How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?"

Srila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.  (Srila Prabhupada, SB Lectures, 71/08/18)

"Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically." (Srila Prabhupada, room conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)

"So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krsna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean, prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter." (Srila Prabhupada, lectures SB 73/12/11)

"So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically we may be in far distant place." (Srial Prabhupada, letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)

"I went to your country for spreading this information of Krsna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Nandarani, Krsna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)

"We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)

"So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master, the Vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)

"I also do not feel separation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically." (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70)

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"ABSTRACT: Deepak Vohra declared that, absent proof, he would not approach an accessible, living guru, but attempt a theoretical relationship with a departed guru." I declared no such thing. My article was only two paragraphs long, in which I simply asked Rama Kesava prabhu to substantiate his speculation that 'current' means 'living'. Ananda needs to read what I actually wrote, and respond to that, instead of responding to some imaginary 'ritvik theory' he thinks I am proposing.

"Ananda das suggests that, even without specific words from Prabhupada requiring aspirants to approach a living guru, such is the clear intent of past practice, as well as of Prabhupada's books and numerous lectures." This is a contradiction. How can a 'clear intent' come from Srila Prabhupada's books and lectures unless expressed in SPECIFIC WORDS? Srila Prabhupada only ever communicates using words, and in order for them to express an intent which is 'clear', they must be 'specific' and clear, not vague and unclear. Yet Ananda prabhu says that this 'clear intent' is evidenced 'even WITHOUT SPECIFIC WORDS'.

"Book-initiation is a meaningless pretense, he says; one must apprentice with a guru capable of administering correction." No one as far as I know has ever proposed 'book initiation.' Certainly not I. Initiation must always be from a spiritual master, not a book. And this idea of 'apprenticing with a guru capable of administering correction', was never practiced by Srila Prabhupada, since he never MET the majority of his disciples, and thus they were never administered 'correction' personally in the capacity of being an apprentice.

So just from the abstract, Ananda prabhu: Makes it clear that he will not be responding to what I actually said, but instead he will answering imaginary 'straw man' 'ritvik theory' arguments. Contradicts the basis of his whole thesis, which is to prove that Srila Prabhupada expressed a clear and specific intent, by saying he did so without needing to use specific words; yet Srila Prabhupada only ever commuinicated via 'specific words' to express a 'clear intent'. He definitely did not use vague words to express something 'clear', and he certainly did not use sign language.

He also proposes a Guru-disciple model that was not practiced by Srila Prabhupada. And since Srila Prabhupada is an acarya, which means he teaches by example, we also know that whatever he did not practice, he did not teach either. Since the abstract gives the substance of the article, we can be sure that the article will not contain any material which will be relevant to either what I said, or what Srila Prabhupada taught, and hence is of no relevance to this debate. Indeed having read the article, I can confirm that all the points which Ananda prabhu makes can actually be responded to by regurgitating the above 3 points. I will give but one example:

Ananda prabhu opens his article by saying:

"Mr. Vohra persists in attributing great importance to the term "current link", declares that it must, a priori and forever into the future, only refer to the ISKCON Founder-Acharya Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, then "challenges" us to find in the "Vedabase" a sentence he himself invented." I never said the term 'current link' must refer to Srila Prabhupada 'forever into the future'. I only asked that Rama Kesava Prabhu substantiate his assertion about what HE declared the term meant.

I also did not ask anyone to find a sentence I invented. I asked Rama Kesava prabhu to substantiate a concept which HE invented, which is that 'current means living'. Rama Kesava prabhu said that "The words 'current link' clearly mean that we must approach a living guru, .". I simply asked where Srila Prabhupada states this speculation, since it was Srila Prabhupada who used the term 'current link', and we can only ascribe to it a meaning that Srila Prabhupada himself gives.

In this way the whole article can be responded to by simply repeating the 3 points made above, with which I responded to his abstract. I therefore humbly suggest that Ananda prabhu re-writes his article so that it both addresses what I actually said, and what Srila Prabhupada specifically said, thus making it of value to this discussion.

Next we come to Robert Newman and Rama Kesava Das's attempts to respond to my request that Rama Kesava Prabhu provide support from Srila Prabhupada to support his speculation that the words "current link' clearly mean that we must approach a living guru".

The reply from Mr. Robert Newman, agrees that no such support can be found from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. However, he states that such support is not necessary since it is a matter of "common sense" that "current link" must mean someone who is physically present. Another reply from Rama Kesava Prabhu also agrees that no such support can be found from Srila Prabhupada's teachings. He also agrees with Mr Newman that no such support is necessary. He gives a different reason however. He states that we can interpret the word "current link" to mean 'physically present', since this is what historical practice would teach us - i.e. all Diksa Gurus previously have been physically present.

However, neither of these methods - "common sense" and "historical practice" - have been sanctioned by Srila Prabhupada as the method by which to understand his words. Without such sanction, everyone can propose his own method by which to understand what Srila Prabhupada's words 'really' mean. Some even say we should understand Srila Prabhupada's words by interpreting them in line with current scientific evidence, or by having them double-checked by Narayana Maharaja etc. Everyone will have his own method. We already have two here from two different individuals. There is no end. That is why we need AUTHORITY from Srila Prabhupada that we can understand his words by a method other than - his words. So before we consider the arguments put forward by Mr Newman and Rama Kesava Das, we first need a statement from Srila Prabhupada sanctioning that their arguments are even valid. Then we can examine the actual arguments in more detail.

Thank You
Your servant,
Deepak

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[Pada update: This living guru philosophy was upheld by the GBC's supporters (mostly from the Gaudiya Matha) like Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, both Puri maharajas and so on, they said you have to worship the GBC as gurus because you need to worship "a living (body) guru." So they were saying, either knowingly or not, "The deviants that Srila Prabhupada said are giving him poison, you have to worship them because they are living."]

Anyway, Prabhupada gave many warnings. He said, "I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves." And he summarized the deviants of the Gaudiya Math: "As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished." So this is rather remarkable that in the Gaudiya Math they had the philosophy that you need a living guru. They say, "You need a living body to worship. You can't worship the dead body of Bhaktisiddhanta, he's a dead body. You have to worship me, I'm a living body." Of course, they didn't mention the fact that they happened to poison Bhaktisiddhanta to get his body dead in the first place. So you kill somebody and then you say, "Oh, he's dead, why do you worship him? He's dead." So this would be like the Roman soldiers who killed Jesus now saying, "Well, look, he's a dead body. You have to worship me now. I'm a living body."

So they don't understand that by killing Prabhupada or being connected to the conspiracy or individuals who poisoned him and now then declaring that you're living, this is not the qualification for guru. It is not simply that you are breathing. In ISKCON today, this is what they say all the time, "You need to be living. The guru is living." No, a guru is not just a person who is breathing.

A person who is breathing might be a criminal. There are many people in prison right now that are breathing, but they're not gurus. A guru is a person who is pure. So they've misunderstood that, and they say that "You need to have a living guru." So this also happened, the point is, in the 1930's. They killed their guru and then, as Prabhupada says, "Now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished," Prabhupada says. This was August 16th, 1976, one year before Prabhupada departed. He is warning his followers, "Watch out. Don't kill your guru and try to become guru like they did in Gaudiya Math. Then you'll be finished." So he understood the psychology, the mentality that was there even in his own leaders, these people might try to kill their guru and declare themselves to be the next guru. Of course he concluded that if they do that, it will not last, they will be finished. The GBC guru empire is slowly collapsing and dwindling just as he predicted.

So Srila Prabhupada said also on the 13th of January, 1977, "These artificial claims to be guru are weapons. That was his only endeavor, how he," the Gaudiya Math guru who poisoned his guru to become guru, "could legally occupy the bricks and stones of the Gaudiya Math. That's all. He has no other ambition. It was simply a show. But the real purpose was to occupy, how to take the whole property. A business." So Srila Prabhupada explains the actual motive of these people who get rid of their guru and declare themselves to be his successors by artificial means is simply so they can "legally occupy the bricks and stones." In other words, it's a means of grabbing money. It's a simple motive. Why do people get murdered all the time, it is for money. They murder people, they shoot people in the bank, shoot people in the store, and they kill their boss, and they kill whoever is an innocent bystander in the way of taking money from people.

This is a common thing in this material world, it's not at all unusual. So that's the motive, and definitely that's what has happened in ISKCON. It's a legal takeover. They now say that "Anyone who objects to us, we're going to sue them, we're going to take them to court." They have no interest in discussing anything openly. The first thing the post-1977 GBC do is to say, we shall take you to court, or at least threaten to take you to court. So this also happened in the post-1936 Gaudiya Math. This man took over the property, and anyone who questioned, he said, "Go to court, take me to court." Same psychology: Kill guru, become guru, occupy the properties, then make a legal challenge to anyone who questions your authenticity. Gangster mentality. Take by force, then purchase a lawyer to protect your illegal ill gotten gains. As Srila Prabhupada says, a business. He calls this "the guru business."

So Prabhupada says here, April 20th, 1977, "We haven't got to manufacture. To manufacture idea is troublesome. Why should we take the trouble? As soon as you want to manufacture something to my..., that is dangerous." "'What our guru has said, that is life and soul. But we don't want that.' Ara na kariha mane." "As soon as this poison will come – 'Suppress guru and I become Brahman' – then everything is finished. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Math finished, that..., violated the orders of Guru Maharaja."

So notice again, Prabhupada uses the word here "poison," meaning "If you try to take over your guru's mission (as they did in the Gaudiya Matha) this is poison." So it's interesting. He was poisoned, and so is the whole idea of taking over the mission. Srila Prabhupada explains, this mentality is also poison. And again, 21 April, 1977, Srila Prabhupada says, "Our mission is to serve bhakti-visesa and live with devotees. Not that you take the place of guru. That is all nonsense, very dangerous."

Notice that this guru takeover mentality is considered as "very dangerous." That means people can get killed, danger.

"Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru – gurusu nara-matih naraka sa. That is material disease." So he was giving a warning here to his leaders, seeing that they were motivated. He's saying, "Be careful, this is very dangerous." And Srila Prabhupada even says that the false gurus of the Gaudiya Math, he compares them to ferocious snakes. This is May 24th, 1977. "These rascals, Gaudiya Math," referring to the false Vaisnava guru factions that emerged after 1936 in India. "If somebody thinks, 'Oh, here is a snake with a jewel. Let me embrace him,' no, no, no, it is very ferocious. Similarly, these various false guru parties are very envious. Even if it has a jewel, it is ferocious. Although they have become Vaisnava, they are ferocious. They have not acquired the qualification of Vaisnava. Simply vesopidin, by dress."

[Pada update: Yes, these statements are very clear and very direct, this "guru takeover" mentality is the same as the mentality of a ferocious snake. "Ferocious snake" means: they will use poison, just as a ferocious snake uses poison.]

So this is another interesting thing, that in 1990 the GBC cited their then "spiritual advisor" Narayana Maharaja, in their "ISKCON Journal" published by Satsvarupa, Tamal Krishna, and the GBC said that this above man who Prabhupada says here is like a snake with a jewel, they said "he is our example of a nice guru, a bona fide guru," the person Prabhupada says is very dangerous.

The 1990 ISKCON Journal cited Narayana Maharaja that Sridhara Maharaja (founder father of the deviant 1936 homosexual guru's party); Madhava Maharaja (the person who almost physically threatened violence to Srila Prabhupada and demanded he quit using the title of "Prabhupada"); and Tirtha Maharaja (the above mentioned snake with a jewel), are all bona fide gurus (acharyas). So there is a connection between the 1936 "kill guru and become guru" party, the guru poisoners, the guru threateners, the guru insulters, the guru takeover plotters, and the post-1977 ISKCON GBC.]

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Srila Prabhupada: "I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves". "As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished." (Srila Prabhupada 1976).

GURU CHEATING NOT EFFECTIVE (April 22.77).

Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear as a guru]. ...You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you become. ...What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU?
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, so we CANNOT BE gurus. MAYBE someday it may be possible....
Prabhupada: Hm. [agrees]
Tamala Krishna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, 'No you become acharya. You become authorized.' I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. ...No rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and "guru." What kind of guru?

Srila Prabhupada: We haven't got to manufacture. To manufacture ideas is troublesome. Why should we take the trouble? And as soon as you want to manufacture something to my...., that is DANGEROUS. ...That you are singing every day, "what our guru has said, that is our life and soul." ...As soon as this POISON will come -suppress guru and I become Brahman- everything FINISHED. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Matha finished, ...VIOLATED the orders of Guru Maharaja.

...And as soon as you manufacture, fall down. This manufacturing idea is very, very dangerous in spiritual life. ...Our mission is to serve bhakta visesa and live with devotees. NOT THAT YOU TAKE THE PLACE OF GURU. THAT IS NONSENSE, VERY DANGEROUS. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become AMBITIOUS to TAKE THE PLACE of GURU-gurusuh nara matih. That is MATERIAL DISEASE.

Srila Prabhupada: Don't be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first. If you immediately become guru, then the service activities will be stopped; and as there are so many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up. (SPL (VI 1987) 68.8.17)

Srila Prabhupada: "This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want." (to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada: "I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and ALL the members of the Society, they're supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually" - (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)

Srila Prabhupada: "I wish that each and every branch shall keep their separate identity and cooperate keeping the acharya in the center. On this principle we can open any number of branches all over the world. The Rama Krishna mission works on this principle and thus as an organization they have done wonderfully." (letter 11th Feb. 1967)

Srila Prabhupada: He [Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja] never recommended anyone to be acharya of the Gaudiya Math.... If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acharya, he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acharya. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. (Srila Prabhupada, letter to Rupanuga das, April 28, 1974)

"All of my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I--one--may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It's not that I'll give an order: "Here is the next leader." Anyone who follows the previous leadership is a leader... All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don't want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param parapraptam. One who follows is perfect." (SP BTG Vol. 13, No. 1-2)

 

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YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR ...

In 1979-1980, one of the living gurus [Tamal Krishna] (now a dead guru) had incensed the others by claiming that he possessed Prabhupada's exclusive "guru shakti" or potency. The other gurus were thus considering how to excommunicate this deviant guru brother. But in December 1980, at the Topanga Canyon Pyramid House Talks, California, Tamal made a dramatic turnabout. He admitted that Srila Prabhupada had never appointed any "living successor" gurus:

Tamal Krishna: "Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He did not appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritvik (officiating priests). He never appointed them as gurus. Myself and the other G.B.C. have done the greatest disservice to this movement for the last three years, because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus....

"(What Srila Prabhupada said was), "All right, I will appoint so many,' and he named them. He made it very clear that they (new members) were still to be his disciples. At that point it was very clear in my mind that they were his disciples....

"Now I understand that what he did was very clear. He was physically incapable of performing the function of initiating physically; therefore he appointed officiating priests to initiate on his behalf. He appointed eleven and he said very clearly, 'Whoever is nearest, he can initiate.'

"This is a very important point, because when it comes to initiating, it is not 'whoever is nearest.' It is wherever your heart goes_to whom you can repose your faith in.

"But when it is officiating, it's 'whoever is nearest,' and he was very clear.... 'Whoever is nearest will check you out. Then, on my behalf, they will initiate....'"

"If it had been more than that (officiating priests), you can bet your bottom dollar that Prabhupada would have spoken for days and hours and weeks on end about how to set up this thing with the gurus.... But he did not, because he already said it a million times. He said, 'My guru maharaja did not appoint anyone. It is by qualification.' We made a great mistake...."

"You cannot show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupada says, 'I appoint these eleven as gurus.' It does not exist, because He never appointed any gurus. This is a myth."

So here Tamal Krishna admits that there never was an appointment of regular gurus; Srila Prabhupada only appointed rtviks (officiating priests). However, he assumes that after Srila Prabhupada left, that it was "only natural" for those eleven rtviks and then more that would be added later, to become regular gurus, even though Srila Prabhupada never instructed such a thing.

Although there was no appointment of anything but ritviks, at Topanga Canyon Tamal thinks that regular gurus can be self-appointed. Of course, his future statements and writings contradict this thesis and themselves in a maze of confusing mumbo-jumbo.

Srila Prabhupada: "This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want." (to Madhudvisa 4 Aug, 1975)

please also read: the current link philosophy
Jayapatka Swami says Srila Prabhupada is dead