SM: "With this I transfer these beads and from now he will initiate on my behalf as Rtvik. The Rtvik system is already involved both here and also in the foreign land. The Rtvik is the representative."
BY: Mahesh Raja
“When someone is initiated they have received transcendental knowledge and their past karma is burned up, they must be a bit like a new born baby. Why is it they still appear and behave the same and even fall down, where has that divine knowledge gone? ”
This is often misunderstood. Formality of initiation: ceremony of name giving and bananas and sesame seeds thrown in fire yajna is not when past Karma is burned off. This is why Srila Prabhupada states this formality “That is not very important thing.”
Radha Krishna Lila
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Prabhupada: In this sahajiya party, then preaching will be finished. Siddha-pranali. Then everything will be finished. Preaching will be finished.
Tamala Krsna: What does that mean, Srila Prabhupada, siddha-pranali?
Prabhupada: Siddha-pranali is nonsense. They have manufactured a siddha-pranali.
Ramesvara: [break] …the initiation that you are given your siddhas, your eternal position.
Prabhupada: They have learned it from these Radha-kunda babajis.
Tamala Krsna: From Radha-kunda babajis?
Prabhupada: Babajis, yes. After all, they’re fool, rascals, so whatever they say. Let them say all nonsense. They are disqualified. Sahajiya babajis, that’s all.
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, when the devotee is in the original relationship with Krsna, his siddha-deha, why is it that he sometimes changes his original rasa with Krsna?
Ramesvara: Each one of us has an original relationship with Krsna, some as plant, some as tree, some as cow, some as cowherd boy. So if that is re-established, why should the devotee desire to change it?
Prabhupada: Well, that is spiritual kingdom. You can change if you like.
Tamala Krsna: It is not static, Prabhupada once explained. Love is not static.
Prabhupada: Generally, it is not changed. Just like mother Yasoda, she’s mother all the time, eternally.
Tamala Krsna: The question came in Bombay two or three years ago. Prabhupada said that it is not static. You can have (inaudible).
Hari-sauri: I always understood before that the rasa was fixed, but that within that rasa one may take different…, one may take a different line.
Prabhupada: That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?
Prabhupada: A patient is thinking, “How shall I dance when I become healthy?” First of all, rascal, become healthy, then talk of all this. The rascals are thinking like that. You are patient; first of all cure your disease, material disease. Then talk of all this. Utopian. “When I will get rich, how I shall treat…. I shall…. Then my wife is disobedient and I shall kick her like this,” (laughter)
Ramesvara: That’s the point.
To speculate on what your eternal position with Krishna is, or to have some one tell you what it is, is a sign of a prakrta-sahajiya. You will know when you get to that platform. It is irrelevant in the practice of bhakti yoga to speculate on this. Srila Prabhupada says: “That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?”
by Sriman Muralidhar das
Following is a critique of the philosophy of the Radha Kunda babajis who teach that when a disciple comes to a guru he should be “given” a spiritual body of a manjari. In this article, the author carefully presents the teachings of Prabhupada Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur who taught that this “siddha pranali” system of worship is a concoction and a deviation from the ways of devotion taught by Sri Rupa-Sanatana.
“In the Lord’s abode, there are an unlimited number of forms, all suitable for rendering service to him. Every one of those forms is non-different from him, being expanded from his effulgence; each one is eternal, full of consciousness and bliss. They are the crowning, central jewels of the spiritual world – its very life. These unlimited spiritual bodies are the perfected forms of the liberated souls which are awarded to an individual, according to his taste, when he reaches the state of absolute liberation. This state is called attainment of the spiritual body. All these spiritual bodies are eternal for they exist even before the liberated souls enter them and will continue to exist ever afterward. However, prior to the entry of the liberated soul they are in an inactive state.”
Yet it must be pointed out that according to the Vedanta Sutra (4.4.1) and Sri Sanatana Goswami (Brhadbagavatamrtam, 2.2), a soul never gets given a spiritual body at any time. The spiritual body is an eternal and inseparable facet of the individual soul, the jiva-atma. The spiritual form of the self is eternally and inseparably connected to the individual self. My spiritual body is inseparable from me and, though dormant, my spiritual body has been with me for all of eternity. When a soul desires to render service to the Lord in his spiritual form then the dormant spiritual body becomes fully manifest. This is clearly stated to be the case in the Vedanta Sutra and in more recent texts such as Sri Sanatana Goswami’s book Brhadbhagavatamrtam. It is utterly wrong to think that a soul can be given a spiritual body. In the commentary by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana to verse 4.4.1 (sampadyavirbhavah svena sabdat) of the Vedanta Sutra, Baladeva has written the following:
Baladeva quotes the Chandogya Upanishad:
Chandogya Upanishad 8.12.3.
aham artho ‘vyayah saksi bhinna-rupah sanatanah
In another part of Brhad Bhagatamrtam, the commentary to verse 2.2.207, Sri Sanatana Goswami also wrote:
Srila Sanatan Goswami describes souls entering the spiritual world:
(Brhad Bhagatamrtam 2.4.35-41)
As an initiated disciple of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and as a member of the International Society for Krishna consciousness, I herewith call to account your past and present preaching activities. Don't think that you are beyond accountability, because of your status as a Swami. Every devotee is accountable before his guru, and in the name of our spiritual master, I herewith demand that accountability from you.
Srila Prabhupada: Well, if he is bad, how can he become a guru? [Laughter.] How can iron become gold? Actually, a guru cannot be bad, for if someone is bad, be cannot be a guru. You cannot say "bad guru." That is a contradiction. What you have to do is simply try to understand what a genuine guru is. The definition of a genuine guru is that he is simply talking about God--that's all. If he's talking about some other nonsense, then he is not a guru. A guru cannot be bad.
Unfortunately ISKCON have not given us a very representative selection of quotes from Srila Prabhupada on the guru issue and in many cases they have trimmed the quotes to remove sections which don't agree with their philosophy. It's not a very honest presentation at all. The most shocking aspect of the paper is this statement:
This is a reply to Jadurani Dasi. In her recent article in the Sun, The Homonym IKSCON", she has listed a bunch of criticisms made towards her guru, Srila Narayana Maharaja, which she then attempted to counter. This is my reply to some of what she wrote.
More evidence? This will blow your mis-matched socks off, Prabhus, so stay tuned! Can you imagine asking a bhakta (now days) to take diksa from an Iskcon guru whom he has never seen? Laughable? Preposterous, you say? This is like asking a person to marry a blind date. After all, your guru is for eternity, so isn't it at least as important as marriage?
The following is a series of quotes from Srila Prabhupada relevant to the ISKCON guru issue. The quotes are presented in a logical order which addresses the entire issue point by point. Let us hear the perfected words of our beloved spiritual master. JAGAD GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA SPEAKS OUT.
When it became painfully obvious to most of us that these men were in fact not pure then they began their system of watering down the position of acarya. Gurus do sometimes fall down, they said. In other words they sometimes cheat, make mistakes, are illusioned and have imperfect senses. This philosophy did not come into being overnight because NOBODY in 1978 would have accepted it but was gradually introduced...